Page 9 of 36 FirstFirst ... 789101119 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 358

Thread: Study finds Corporate America avoided $60B in taxes (2010)

  1. #81
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,077

    Re: Study finds Corporate America avoided $60B in taxes (2010)

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Japan has a higher tax rate than America
    and (before the Tsunami hit and sucked up every political moment) they were looking to significantly reduce it for precisely this reason.

    Japan does, however, still have the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world.

    hey, how has their economy been the last couple of decades, anywho? just roaring along, right?

    no? gosh...... well, have they tried massive stimulus spending to improve that?

    they have? gee.....

    it's almost enough to make you wonder if a high-tax-high-spending government puts downward pressure on private sector growth or something....

    and US companies pay less taxes than other industrialized countries because of all the deductions, tax shelters, and loopholes
    yes and no - it depends on the company and the industry. our retailers, for example, pay pretty close to the nominal tax rate, while companies that are friendlier with the Administration and able to take greater advantage (like GE) pay less.

    I have been reading about this for the past 20 minutes, and I might start a post on it in a few minutes. The fact is, US corporations actually pay less taxes than most other countries but the tax rate is high. Lowering the tax rate isn't going to do anything, because more than 50 percent of corporations pay NO taxes at all.
    actually it will - because they pay alot to get to those lower tax rates. If I am Acme Inc., and I can hire 150 of the highest-voltage tax attorneys in the world at a cost of 3,000,000 so that they can tell me how to divert 15,000,000 into particular shelters and less productive venues in order to avoid 50,000,000 in taxes; then I save a cool $32 million. But it still cost me $18 Million to save that $50 million.

    when you lower the nominal rate, you reduce the incentives to spend that $18 million, and in particular lose the gains that the $15 million portion would have gotten you in increased production. Not only do you see production increases from the fact that people are now seeking to put less of their money into tax avoidance (and thus pumping that money into production), you see increases from the fact that they now need to spend less of the $3 million to figure out how to do so. You are reducing the compliance costs of the system, and reducing the incentive to engage in tax avoidance. the result is more actual revenue and more growth.

  2. #82
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,077

    Re: Study finds Corporate America avoided $60B in taxes (2010)

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    This is a horrible, pointless argument. We are talking about the debt and the war debt, paying it off, and how the government is giving people hand outs in the form of tax credits and corporate welfare. Instead of complaining about handouts and the tax code, or arguing to change the tax code, you're defending it as human nature
    actually I support the House Republicans' attempt to strip out all of these tax credits and corporate welfare, and I supported it when the Simpson-Bowles Commission called for the same. The only party in Washington today who has thus far refused to come out in favor of this process in legislation is the Democrats. Though to be fair, the President has said he's in favor of such a switch theoretically; he just tends to balk when it comes to actually doing it. In the meantime, I'm just pointing out that the businesses involved are no more immoral than the President or your average middle class family in that they seek to minimize their tax exposure. They are merely working within the incentive structure that our idiotic tax code has created.

    Well, no **** Sherlock. If you can get money back rather than pay, you will want money. Thanks Captain Obvious
    then what is the point of this thread? "hey look ya'll! something completely obvious is occuring that surprises no one!"

    What do you propose doing about the deficit, just cut spending, spending, spending, but not cut the government spending money by paying GE over 2 million or individuals billions of dollars?
    actually on top of reducing spending and making Medicare sustainable, the House 2012 Budget strips out the provisions that do that; but in a an effective rate neutral manner.

  3. #83
    Sage
    SheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,468

    Re: Study finds Corporate America avoided $60B in taxes (2010)

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    and (before the Tsunami hit and sucked up every political moment) they were looking to significantly reduce it for precisely this reason.

    Japan does, however, still have the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world.

    hey, how has their economy been the last couple of decades, anywho? just roaring along, right?

    no? gosh...... well, have they tried massive stimulus spending to improve that?

    they have? gee.....

    it's almost enough to make you wonder if a high-tax-high-spending government puts downward pressure on private sector growth or something....



    yes and no - it depends on the company and the industry. our retailers, for example, pay pretty close to the nominal tax rate, while companies that are friendlier with the Administration and able to take greater advantage (like GE) pay less.



    actually it will - because they pay alot to get to those lower tax rates. If I am Acme Inc., and I can hire 150 of the highest-voltage tax attorneys in the world at a cost of 3,000,000 so that they can tell me how to divert 15,000,000 into particular shelters and less productive venues in order to avoid 50,000,000 in taxes; then I save a cool $32 million. But it still cost me $18 Million to save that $50 million.

    when you lower the nominal rate, you reduce the incentives to spend that $18 million, and in particular lose the gains that the $15 million portion would have gotten you in increased production. Not only do you see production increases from the fact that people are now seeking to put less of their money into tax avoidance (and thus pumping that money into production), you see increases from the fact that they now need to spend less of the $3 million to figure out how to do so. You are reducing the compliance costs of the system, and reducing the incentive to engage in tax avoidance. the result is more actual revenue and more growth.
    Lowering the tax rate in itself is not going to do anything if the tax code doesn't end most deductions, and I think it's funny how you assume a higher net income is going to all go towards the retained earnings account. You are a trickle down theory guy. The fact is, they avoided 60B in taxes, so we should all be benefiting from that right now. Where is the evidence we are benefiting? Most of the people in this country want a job, or even a full time job with benefits. That's 60B that should have gone back into production, right? That's 60B that Canada, Germany, and Japan's economy didn't pay their corporations.

    The government isn't in the business of saving anybody money. You want the government to lower GE's taxes, so they can save money in paying doilette and touche (or whoever) to file their taxes. You think that doilette and touche and the rest of the Big Four are going to lower tax and audit costs, because the government lowered taxes? That's kind of funny.

  4. #84
    Guru

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oaxaca, Mexico
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 08:43 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    3,579

    Re: Study finds Corporate America avoided $60B in taxes (2010)

    The tax code is not about raising revenue. It's about controlling people and how they live. The government wants you to buy a house so they give tax incentives. They want you do have children, so they give tax incentives. They don't want you to drive so there are tax penalties.

  5. #85
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: Study finds Corporate America avoided $60B in taxes (2010)

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    and (before the Tsunami hit and sucked up every political moment) they were looking to significantly reduce it for precisely this reason.

    Japan does, however, still have the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world.

    hey, how has their economy been the last couple of decades, anywho? just roaring along, right?

    no? gosh...... well, have they tried massive stimulus spending to improve that?

    they have? gee.....

    it's almost enough to make you wonder if a high-tax-high-spending government puts downward pressure on private sector growth or something....
    Japan had for awhile dealt with near out of control deflation. You can't spend your way out of that, during deflationary times it's very hard to spur spending by the people and that's what was needed. It's a little simplistic I believe to point to their tax code and their business structure and try to claim a direct cause and effect. Economics is a high order, non-linear system and there are many factors which go into it. But their deflationary tailspin is a very different sort of system from our bloated spending.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #86
    Sage
    SheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,468

    Re: Study finds Corporate America avoided $60B in taxes (2010)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Japan had for awhile dealt with near out of control deflation. You can't spend your way out of that, during deflationary times it's very hard to spur spending by the people and that's what was needed. It's a little simplistic I believe to point to their tax code and their business structure and try to claim a direct cause and effect. Economics is a high order, non-linear system and there are many factors which go into it. But their deflationary tailspin is a very different sort of system from our bloated spending.
    It doesn't appear like Japan has the same problem with losing all their manufacturing or infrastructure either. It seems like their economy is highly innovative.

  7. #87
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,077

    Re: Study finds Corporate America avoided $60B in taxes (2010)

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Lowering the tax rate in itself is not going to do anything if the tax code doesn't end most deductions, and I think it's funny how you assume a higher net income is going to all go towards the retained earnings account. You are a trickle down theory guy. The fact is, they avoided 60B in taxes, so we should all be benefiting from that right now. Where is the evidence we are benefiting? Most of the people in this country want a job, or even a full time job with benefits. That's 60B that should have gone back into production, right? That's 60B that Canada, Germany, and Japan's economy didn't pay their corporations.
    you are talking about 60bn in tax avoidance, not 60bn in production increase - you continue to ignore the compliance costs. We Americans have $431 Bn in compliance costs .


    The government isn't in the business of saving anybody money. You want the government to lower GE's taxes, so they can save money in paying doilette and touche (or whoever) to file their taxes. You think that doilette and touche and the rest of the Big Four are going to lower tax and audit costs, because the government lowered taxes? That's kind of funny.
    no, i want effective tax rate neutrality, but with stripped out deductions credits and shelters. that means that GE will pay more and Target will pay less, but both business models will be treated equally.

  8. #88
    Sage
    SheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,468

    Re: Study finds Corporate America avoided $60B in taxes (2010)

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    you are talking about 60bn in tax avoidance, not 60bn in production increase - you continue to ignore the compliance costs. We Americans have $431 Bn in compliance costs .
    So we need to use the government as a vehicle to see that more than 60B actually trickles down to us because we can't feel the affects of 60B trickling down, because those damn tax specialists are expensive... ok. But wait, it's not like tax consulting fees for businesses are a tax deduction in of itself, so the government lowering the cost of tax preparation (lol) won't make a difference in terms of taxable income. It will be a smaller credit to the expense account, but it will be written off for tax purposes... it's has a zero sum affect.

    Why do you keep arguing that the government is going to lower the costs of tax consulting for firms anyway? That argument is horrible. Ad if your argument was even founded, there will be less income and production in the accounting and legal industry, and that will basically be attacking the top 1% of tax payers... attorneys and CPAs. Ask Turtle Dude, that's what he argues all the time.

  9. #89
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,309

    Re: Study finds Corporate America avoided $60B in taxes (2010)

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    All I have to say is...

    FoxNews.com:



    Now, before anyone starts critisizing the above and start labelling me anti-rich, read what Ken Langone, Dir., NYSE, had to say about taxing the rich.

    From MSNBC.com:
    So, not really, "corporate America", just the top 100 American corporations?

  10. #90
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,309

    Re: Study finds Corporate America avoided $60B in taxes (2010)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, the solution is to remove the loopholes so that they cannot avoid paying their taxes. It's the same idea behind getting rid of the Capital Gains definition. Income is income, just because some people got Congress to call some income not income does not make that income not income. It should all be taxed the same. Get rid of these rules that allow companies to hide their taxes, they already get enough in hand outs and subsidies (free market my ass).
    Such as?

    I keep asking and everyone keeps not answering.

Page 9 of 36 FirstFirst ... 789101119 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •