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Study finds Corporate America avoided $60B in taxes (2010)

apdst said:
It may have, if we didn't have an out of control, over-regulating government.
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The government has nothing to do with it, this is the private sector getting 60b more...
 
SheWolf said:
The government has nothing to do with it, this is the private sector getting 60b more...
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You'd be surprised - a large portion of the 'private sector' are employed via government by proxy . . . manufacturing goods, materials, providing services adn research - and so on.

So - ergo - they work for the man and then sidestep uncle sam. Sounds sleazy :)
 
apdst said:
Those are international companies. I'm talking about corporations that don't have any kind of overseas operations, unless maybe they're purchasing a piece of equipment, or buying parts, etc. You know, about 90% of, "Corporate America"?
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Many of those companies don't have operations overseas. They just have shells set up, which incur expenses for the domestic corporation to get credits and deductions with. Furthermore, they can indefinitely tie up assets in those foreign shells and hide money that way. NO OVERSEAS OPERATIONS. I repeat, just a shell that buys **** from the domestic company such as patent rights that will never be used, because the company has no actual operations and is not producing anything... it's just a way for domestic companies, with purely domestic operations, to take full advantage of tax credits and deductions and get huge refunds. A shell could also buy inventory, drive down the supply in the market, then reseal it well it's more valuable... report a domestic tax credit or deduction for the expenses associated with producing the item domestically, then resell it from the shell aboard and take an additional domestic tax credit on it through the title passage loophole.

Domestic companies do this because transferring money out of the domestic company can allow the domestic company to get tax credits and deductions, but the IRS is trying to close this loophole with a new tax form.
 
cpwill said:
it is a worthy point to bring in the draft. Like those who pay taxes, those who were drafted were doing something "for the country", but they weren't exactly doing it out of willingness or a desire to help. They were doing it because it was the law.

volunteers, however, could be said to have done something willingly for the country, and could perhaps be compared with those (few) souls who contribute extra to the pay-down-the-debt-fund that the Treasury accepts donations for.
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This will be my last post in this thread...I want to respond to you CPwill so you didnt think I was ignoring you :)

I didnt bring up the draft as an example of draftees I brought it up as an example of how the rich take advantage over others.
It doesnt matter if they were drafted willfully or not...the point that you missed is that, the rich and powerful wrote a law into the draft code that enabled their privledged kids to avoid the draft entirely and the less fortunate everyday americans had no out. Back then there were no student loans or any aid...
You may think thats perfectly ok to do...I think its never ok to manipulate which mans son takes the ultimate risk while the other mans son gets to play.
 
cpwill said:
evil companies ship jobs overseas. let's make 'em do it even more; that'll show them!
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Again, you don't really understand the problem. It is not taxes. That's the lie used to pander to those who think they can actually get business to stay here. It is instead near slave labor with no medical insurance concerns. We do with taxes altogether, and business would still be going overseas. At this point, we would simply ahve to agree to work for next to nothing and have no health care. That is really what it would take.

But, pretend it's taxes.
 
The Barbarian said:
You have got to be joking, you think that you can tax business at a nominal rate of near 40% of their gross profit ??? You are a prime example of why a liberal could never make it in business.

I can't but to wonder if you even know what gross profit is.
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Yes, I know. Those poor, poor fellows. GOP: Special Victims unit.


Seriously, I said, drop dedcutions, and tax at or slight above where they are now. And I repeat, you could do away with taxes altogether, and still lose business to overseas as long as we won't work for slave wages and have health care attached to business.
 
lpast said:
This will be my last post in this thread...I want to respond to you CPwill so you didnt think I was ignoring you :)

I didnt bring up the draft as an example of draftees I brought it up as an example of how the rich take advantage over others.
It doesnt matter if they were drafted willfully or not...the point that you missed is that, the rich and powerful wrote a law into the draft code that enabled their privledged kids to avoid the draft entirely and the less fortunate everyday americans had no out. Back then there were no student loans or any aid...
You may think thats perfectly ok to do...I think its never ok to manipulate which mans son takes the ultimate risk while the other mans son gets to play.
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i don't think any more highly of student deferrments than i think of the civil war system where you could hire someone to fight for you. though yes, that was something that our upper middle and upper classes writing in protection for their own. Someone Else's Son continues to be powerful today - ask anyone on recruiting duty in 2005-2006 how eager the middle and upper classes were for their children to enlist.
 
Boo Radley said:
Yes, I know. Those poor, poor fellows. GOP: Special Victims unit.


Seriously, I said, drop dedcutions, and tax at or slight above where they are now. And I repeat, you could do away with taxes altogether, and still lose business to overseas as long as we won't work for slave wages and have health care attached to business.
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I think the government will phase out deductions, because raising taxes is a political death trap. It's bound to happen... just like the IRS coming out with a form to try and collect offshored money.
 
Boo Radley said:
Again, you don't really understand the problem. It is not taxes
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it's not just taxes. it's compliance costs, regulatory burdens, the cost of production, the relative risk of the locality, political stability...

but yes, taxes are there, and they are a huge part. often decisions in business are controlled not by productivity, but by tax exposure. that is a killer.

That's the lie used to pander to those who think they can actually get business to stay here. It is instead near slave labor with no medical insurance concerns.
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and exceedingly low productivity. remember that the price of labor is not the cost of labor - it is the cost of labor to value added.

We do with taxes altogether, and business would still be going overseas.
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each nation should seek out their natural advantage in trade, this is true. what we want is the development of ours. but that can't happen without capital; and right now we push capital out and scare what's here onto the sidelines.
 
cpwill said:
it's not just taxes. it's compliance costs, regulatory burdens, the cost of production, the relative risk of the locality, political stability...

but yes, taxes are there, and they are a huge part. often decisions in business are controlled not by productivity, but by tax exposure. that is a killer.



and exceedingly low productivity. remember that the price of labor is not the cost of labor - it is the cost of labor to value added.



each nation should seek out their natural advantage in trade, this is true. what we want is the development of ours. but that can't happen without capital; and right now we push capital out and scare what's here onto the sidelines.
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We have as much or more capital than anyone else. We want more, greed if you will, getting the cheapest labor, slave if possible, paying out the least, nothing would be best. As long as they can go somewhere else for this, taxes are almost meaningless.

What I'm saying is, there is nothing we can give them to keep them here. We would have to be willing to lower our standard of living to match where they're going. I think this is clear.
 
Boo Radley said:
We do (sic) with taxes altogether, and business would still be going overseas. At this point, we would simply ahve to agree to work for next to nothing and have no health care. That is really what it would take.
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the american worker is overpaid, huh?

the pensions, the benefits?

no wonder so many gubs, mayors and city managers from both parties, as well as school districts around the country, are beginning to bust up so many unions

unilaterally shredding so many bargains collectively agreed upon

sign of the times, the age of obama

we don't want that slave labor stuff coming here, now

good thinking

what's next, nietzsche?
 
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Boo Radley said:
We have as much or more capital than anyone else. We want more, greed if you will, getting the cheapest labor, slave if possible, paying out the least, nothing would be best.
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no. we want return and we want growth. and right now we don't have capital because it's either being held offshore, or being held off-line due to the fact that government will sieze it if they try to bring it back, and will tip over the canoe if they try to invest what they have here.

the vast majority of nations have a territorial tax system. it really doesn't make sense to me how anyone can look at the incentives of us taxing people for repatriating funds and come to the conclusion that it's a good idea.

As long as they can go somewhere else for this, taxes are almost meaningless.
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no, they aren't. because they strongly effect return.

What I'm saying is, there is nothing we can give them to keep them here. We would have to be willing to lower our standard of living to match where they're going. I think this is clear.
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you are overemphasizing the hourly wage and benefits package to the point of absurdity.
 
SheWolf said:
I gave plenty of examples in my previous posts, it's as if you didn't even read it...
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No you didn't. You ranted about child tax credits and stuff. Do you have an actual example of a law that was intended to do one thing but corporations were able to find a "loophole" to get around it?

and you just wrote a response like "those aren't tax loopholes." They are loopholes because the affects were not anticipated or what the IRS wanted to happen. Those credits were meant to help companies out, not lead to companies creating shell companies to avoid paying taxes all together. Smart people who study the tax code have found ways to get around paying taxes on money and getting credits for paying a single expense two or more times but funneling it through shell companies, which appear to be separate companies that have little to no taxable income. That is exactly why the IRS is actually creating new forms this year.
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Please, show me one of these laws. As an aside....the IRS can't simply change the law by changing a form.
 
Boo Radley said:
We have as much or more capital than anyone else. We want more, greed if you will, getting the cheapest labor, slave if possible, paying out the least, nothing would be best. As long as they can go somewhere else for this, taxes are almost meaningless.

What I'm saying is, there is nothing we can give them to keep them here. We would have to be willing to lower our standard of living to match where they're going. I think this is clear.
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Nothing we could give them? Like you have something you could give them? You are absolutely wrong and I've noted the framework more than once.

First we would have to quit piling regulation upon regulation upon regulation on companies. There are some understandable ones that everyone would agree on but off the top of my head. I would love to be able to take time off as opposed to extra pay for working OT. I rarely work OT because the money isn't that important. I would work it if I was able to take it as time off sometime else. Not allowed. Now this list is endless but let's move on.

We then tax upon country of origin. (simply made up numbers). Sell toasters made in the U.S.A.? Pay a 23% rate. Sell toasters made in China? Pay a 35% rate.
 
Ikari said:
We have to! If we tax them, we won't have any jobs. Won't somebody PLEASE think of the jobs!?
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Exactly, why would any rationale thinking person treat a chronic problem while ignoring an acute problem (jobs)!!!!!!!!
Dylan Ratigan accurately compared it to an overweight guy with a broken leg going to the emergency and they say you need to lose weight.
 
cpwill said:
i don't think any more highly of student deferrments than i think of the civil war system where you could hire someone to fight for you. though yes, that was something that our upper middle and upper classes writing in protection for their own. Someone Else's Son continues to be powerful today - ask anyone on recruiting duty in 2005-2006 how eager the middle and upper classes were for their children to enlist.
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Again only the rich could afford to pay someone to fight for them.....It brings us back to this teaparty assault on the working class...the teaparty that is comprised of the rich and privledged that have done fabulously well while the middle class has suffered and fell behind...want me to believe that they are being abused by the govt, by public workers, by senior citizens and that the entire debt problem is their fault...and has nothing to do with all the polcies that are in place to benefit the rich that put us in debt......cpwill...this teaparty fantasy story will not be a long term success its predicated on pure class warfare from the top down...they will fail in the long run..

You guys got it made and you want more and more....
 
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dude. i am an E5 in the military. If I am making amazing amounts of money, I want to know where it is.


in reality, you just have nothing, so you just fall back on crappy, recycled, old-socialist rhetoric.
 
SheWolf said:
The government has nothing to do with it, this is the private sector getting 60b more...
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And good for us. Better off in our hands than in the government's coffers. The government will just blow it on some bull****.
 
1Perry said:
No you didn't. You ranted about child tax credits and stuff. Do you have an actual example of a law that was intended to do one thing but corporations were able to find a "loophole" to get around it?



Please, show me one of these laws. As an aside....the IRS can't simply change the law by changing a form.
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The IRS isn't simply changing the law by changing a form... the IRS is issuing the form, because they are want to tax taxable income. Income that is already considered taxable by the code, but isn't being taxed, and can't be taxed because some companies are hiding the money in shells and taking double credits on the same expense.

One example of a law that was intended to do one thing but corporations were able to find a "loophole" to get around it... I have given examples over and over. AGAIN. Shell companies set up, just to avoid taxes, and get domestic companies tax credits... Shells will buy intangible property to incur expenses, and then the domestic company takes a credit or deduction for that expense. It's falsely incurring expenses and transferring assets to abuse the tax code, because the tax code has a hole in it. The income is still considered taxable. The tax code doesn't encourage shell companies, none of the credits were intended to be generated by falsely engaging in business. It has had an adverse affect, and it's simply a hole that smart people have managed to find and abuse. Because the money is still considered taxable by the tax IRS can simply issue a new tax form, without even changing the tax. The IRS is just trying to enforce the code. Some companies are trying to avoid following it.
 
1Perry said:
If that isn't one of the most misleading headlines ever written, it's in the top 5.
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"The Government Accountability Office said 72 percent of all foreign corporations and about 57 percent of U.S. companies doing business in the United States paid no federal income taxes for at least one year between 1998 and 2005."

The article says it's 57 percent, but read the rest of the article. It varies, depending on how you dissect the statistics. Go ahead and provide a source for your claim.
 
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