Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ... 45678 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 72

Thread: Boehner issues blunt warning to debt dissenters

  1. #51
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,762

    Re: Boehner issues blunt warning to debt dissenters

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Both plans are undesirable, but to get the facts straight:

    Reid's plan purports to cut 2.2 trillion but puts us 2.7 trillion further in debt, so it's really a $500 billion dollar spending plan that would cover Obama through 2012.

    Boehner's (revised) plan cuts 917 billion to put us 900 billion further in debt. It provides next to nothing in real cuts, but only takes us into next Spring, when he'll ask for an additional 1.8 trillion in cuts to raise the ceiling.

    1 trillion (45%) of Reid's "cuts" are attributed to "winding down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan." That's going to happen anyway, so if you factor that out, as the CBO did - Reid's plan reduces outlays by $750 billion, whereas the CBO predicted an 851 billion dollar reduction for Boehner's plan.CNN: Reid debt ceiling plan comes up short - Jul. 27, 2011
    As I said in the OP, spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are part of the overall deficit. America wants these wars to draw down. We may be pulling troops out, but we still have a significant military presence in both theaters. As such, I'd think you'd want spending to be capped in this area if for no other reason than to show that the President is serious about bringing these wars to an end. I see this as being part of spending cuts in the Defense Department budget which both sides have said they support. Moreover, both sides recognize the financial burden these wars have had on our nation's economy. As such, both sides want these wars to end. I really don't see a problem with Reid's plan incorporating capping spending here.

    As to the debt limit extension timeline, I think the country would be much better off if the debt limit were extended beyond the next 6-months because we've had these short-term fixes before. We'll only be right back here again come January 2012. And judging on how contensious things are right now, I seriously doubt temperments or ideologies will change much between now and then. Besides, the markets needs some form of long-term stability as you can tell from all the complaints coming from both Wall Street, investors both foreign and domestic and business leaders.

    I agree with donsutherland1; merge the best of both bills and you have a winner. Both bills are very similar. Neither raises taxes, one assures a cap is placed on military spending where Iraq and Afghanistan are concerned ensuring a commitment to drawing down both wars, and both go out to 2021. In fact, if you removed the call for a Constitutional amendment from Boehner's bill and the extended and expanded authority to auction licenes for the EM spectrum from Reid's bill, both bills would be virtually identical.

  2. #52
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    11-28-17 @ 04:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    11,690

    Re: Boehner issues blunt warning to debt dissenters

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I agree with donsutherland1; merge the best of both bills and you have a winner. Both bills are very similar. Neither raises taxes, one assures a cap is placed on military spending where Iraq and Afghanistan are concerned ensuring a commitment to drawing down both wars, and both go out to 2021. In fact, if you removed the call for a Constitutional amendment from Boehner's bill and the extended and expanded authority to auction licenes for the EM spectrum from Reid's bill, both bills would be virtually identical.
    I see that as the least bad solution. At least it would avoid a self-inflicted, wholly avoidable crisis. It could make a modest downpayment on addressing the nation's fiscal imbalances.

    Ideally, there would be a credible fiscal consolidation strategy. That will likely have to be devised down the road--time is now insufficient and the intraparty and interparty differences are too great to overcome immediately. IMO, and I strongly agree with the IMF's position, such a strategy would include discretionary spending savings, entitlement program reform, and tax reform that would address such issues as loopholes/deductions (now amount to 7% of GDP) and simplification that could yield modest efficiency savings. Medicare/Medicaid reform won't be adequate to address those programs' long-term imbalances. Fundamental health reform will almost certainly be necessary. Critical investments would need to be safeguarded to the greatest extent possible so that the nation can maintain an environment that could facilitate sustained robust economic growth. Strong leadership, political courage, and pragmatism will be required to achieve such an outcome.

  3. #53
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,237

    Re: Boehner issues blunt warning to debt dissenters

    Democrats don't really believe in cutting spending on anything at anytime. So Reid's plan defies the Democrat platform, therefore it cannot possibly be real. The whole purpose of this charade is so the American people will not witness Obama vetoing a real debt ceilling raising, spending cut measure. By stalling the House plan in the Senate, and Reid proposing some bull**** look-alike, he can protect the President from looking like an ass for vetoing a real spending cut measure by instead signing a fake. Does anyone really believe that Democrats want to cut spending, except possibly defense if they could get away with it? The mere fact that they are demogoguing over raising our debt ceiling proves this. Charging that Republicans want old people to eat dog food and die, proves they aren't serious about budget cuts. Democrats are in the fight for their very political lives here. Cut enough spending and the Republicans would be the only political party left in Congress. Frankly I don't think we should raise the debt ceiling, because I'm tired of all the spending.
    Last edited by American; 07-28-11 at 10:46 AM.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  4. #54
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: Boehner issues blunt warning to debt dissenters

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I don't remember them being on board with TARP, Obamacare, Obama's Stimulus plan, cash for clunkers, etc. etc.

    But really, it's all up to Obama whether he wants to sign some piece of legislation, or if he wants to be the first President to default on our obligations, starve government, or leave seniors in the cold because we didn't raise the upper tax bracket by 3% or somesuch.
    The Tea Party had no one in Congress when TARP was passed

    And it wasn't Obama who starting attaching preconditions to the negotiations. The repubs started out by insisting that any bill to raise the debt ceiling MUST include spending reductions. They are still clinging desperately to that position, and will not compromise even though Obama and dems have said that they are willing to vote on a "stand alone" bill that raises the debt ceiling and does nothing else (ie no tax increases AND no spending cuts).

    The repubs stubbornly insist on spending cuts are will not offer anything in return
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  5. #55
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: Boehner issues blunt warning to debt dissenters

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    This whole thing is just a song and dance routine. Anything that's going to cut the deficit "over 10 years" is a load of ****. They'll just put the spending back in later when the politics change. Plus, in 10 years, the deficit will probably have increased by another 10 trillion or so, so it doesn't make a difference anyway.
    Any bill that cuts spending can be overriden by a subsequent bill the increases spending. Early next year, a new Congress will be seated with new members who will not be bound by the promises of the old congress.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #56
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: Boehner issues blunt warning to debt dissenters

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    Always with the veiled insults, eh? Could you post a link to your statement, I'm not familiar with that quote.




    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #57
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,762

    Re: Boehner issues blunt warning to debt dissenters

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Democrats don't really believe in cutting spending on anything at anytime. So Reid's plan defies the Democrat platform, therefore it cannot possibly be real. The whole purpose of this charade is so the American people will not witness Obama vetoing a real debt ceilling raising, spending cut measure. By stalling the House plan in the Senate, and Reid proposing some bull**** look-alike, he can protect the President from looking like an ass for vetoing a real spending cut measure by instead signing a fake. Does anyone really believe that Democrats want to cut spending, except possibly defense if they could get away with it? The mere fact that they are demogoguing over raising our debt ceiling proves this. Charging that Republicans want old people to eat dog food and die, proves they aren't serious about budget cuts. Democrats are in the fight for their very political lives here. Cut enough spending and the Republicans would be the only political party left in Congress. Frankly I don't think we should raise the debt ceiling, because I'm tired of all the spending.
    Considering that Boeher's plan was scored by the CBO first, I'll concede Reid's could be viewed as a "copy-cat", but that doesn't mean the Dems aren't serious about spending cuts. It just means he found a way to try and 1-up the House plan. And per the CBO, it is Boeher's plan that looks like the one calculated using "fuzzy math" because both baselines he used - March and January 2011 - came up short of his projected numbers. So, although Reid might have copied from Boehner, Reid's plan was closer to having the number jibe per the CBO.

    If I were a member of Congress regardless of which chamber or which party, I'd be willing to vote for Boehner's plan if the timeline for reaching the debt limit as increased were pushed back to 2013. Not because 2012 is an election year, but because doing so would provide the markets breathing room and much needed certainty. As I've mentioned in atleast two other threads where past debt limits were raised (between 2003-2008), none were longer than 1-year. Furthermore, I've had some time to think about it and I could agree to freezing spending at 2010 levels as long as certain provisions apply, i.e., emergency situations (wars, natural/man-made disasters) or the ability to shift spending between programs, as needed, without going over the 2010 baseline, and the Bush tax cuts were to expire because the country could really use the revenue. The Republicans could even include a provision that ensures that all the new revenue went directly towards paying down the debt. Once the nation has a surplus, those revenues could go toward infrastructure projects or investing in new technology, etc.

    Give up those provisions, and you get your spending freeze. I think that's fair.

  8. #58
    Sage
    Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    US
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:29 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,159

    Re: Boehner issues blunt warning to debt dissenters

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I really don't see a problem with Reid's plan incorporating capping spending here.
    That's fine - I was just pointing out that -- while not explicitly included -- the Boehner plan will see the same "cuts."

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    As to the debt limit extension timeline, I think the country would be much better off if the debt limit were extended beyond the next 6-months because we've had these short-term fixes before. We'll only be right back here again come January 2012. And judging on how contensious things are right now, I seriously doubt temperments or ideologies will change much between now and then. Besides, the markets needs some form of long-term stability as you can tell from all the complaints coming from both Wall Street, investors both foreign and domestic and business leaders.
    Putting specific plans aside, I most certainly agree with you here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I agree with donsutherland1; merge the best of both bills and you have a winner. Both bills are very similar. Neither raises taxes, one assures a cap is placed on military spending where Iraq and Afghanistan are concerned ensuring a commitment to drawing down both wars, and both go out to 2021. In fact, if you removed the call for a Constitutional amendment from Boehner's bill and the extended and expanded authority to auction licenes for the EM spectrum from Reid's bill, both bills would be virtually identical.
    I think it's worth pointing out that while cuts to the discretionary budget are very similar in monetary terms, the details pertaining to what gets cut are quite different (or at least that's my sense based on what commentary I've read - i've only just skimmed the bills myself).

    One of the biggest red flags for Reid's bill among Republicans is that the proposed cuts don't cover the increase in the debt limit. The plan didn't get the best review from the GAO - at least according to CNN, although they say "The Senate Democratic Leadership Office said the CBO analyzed the bill's "first draft" and that more cuts are planned. "The final version of the Senate plan will achieve even deeper savings when it is filed on the floor," according to a statement." so we'll have to wait and see what comes next.
    Last edited by Taylor; 07-28-11 at 12:45 PM.

  9. #59
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,762

    Re: Boehner issues blunt warning to debt dissenters

    Taylor,

    donsutherland1 has posted links to both debt limit proposals. No excuse for anyone not having read them. That said, glad we can agree on some of the issues. Just wish members of Congress could do it and get this issue over with.

  10. #60
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Boehner issues blunt warning to debt dissenters

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    As I said in the OP, spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are part of the overall deficit. America wants these wars to draw down. We may be pulling troops out, but we still have a significant military presence in both theaters. As such, I'd think you'd want spending to be capped in this area if for no other reason than to show that the President is serious about bringing these wars to an end. I see this as being part of spending cuts in the Defense Department budget which both sides have said they support. Moreover, both sides recognize the financial burden these wars have had on our nation's economy. As such, both sides want these wars to end. I really don't see a problem with Reid's plan incorporating capping spending here.
    reid is trying to claim as a credit of ONE TRILLION DOLLARS of savings a section of line items that were never gonna be spent in the first place

    the federal govt is asking the taxpayers to raise its credit card limit sufficient to last it EIGHTEEN MONTHS more

    and the way this govt spends---we're sixty billion further behind every two weeks

    the govt is asking us for TWO POINT FOUR TRILLION DOLLARS of additional credit

    reid is not a credible borrower

Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ... 45678 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •