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Thread: GE moving X-ray business to China

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    Re: GE moving X-ray business to China

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    America was built up through tariffs on foreign goods

    Trade: Chapter 20-3: US Tariff Policy: Historical Notes




    Except for a period of time in the 1920's and post WW2 tariffs in the US were a mainstay of federal government income, and helped ensure US domestic industries developed during the 1800
    Many countries rely on tariffs as a form of sales tax.

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    Re: GE moving X-ray business to China

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I don't discount the difference commodities have made and part of the Canadian boom has been the American reluctance to drill for oil, thereby making Canada their major supplier.

    It's also wise you added (not yet) to the Canadian Real Estate market. It could be argued that American housing is closer to genuine market value than Canadian prices. The Canadian real estate market is unrealistically high only through government manipulation, not as a result of the actual marketplace.

    Free trade is good for everyone, the manufacturer and the consumer. There is no long term successful alternative.
    The US is only reluctant to drill in two areas, Anwar, and certain parts of the off shore (California coast, Florida coast) The US is drilling like mad in North Dakota, the north eastern US (ie New York, Penn)

    Can housing prices are outrageous compared to the US. The squatter home in Texas which I believe was stated to be worth $300 000 would be a $700 000 home in Calgary. A $300 000 home in Calgary is a small starter home or a nice condo outside of the downtown core. The Can government, and the BoC are hoping to maintain home prices, and hopefully not see a colllapse. At least most Canadians were required to put a larger downpayment on their homes, which will ensure more Canadians will not just walk away and allow for foreclosure if possible



    The US produces 9 million or so barrels of oil a day, it is in the top 3 producers, the problem is not that the US is not drilling, the problem is that the US does not have the reserves to drill to make much of a real difference. When you use 18 million ( down a couple of million from its high) and have rather small economical reserves compared to what is being used on a regular basis, you are going to have to import alot of oil.

    As for free trade, it can be good it can be bad, it depends on the state of the economy, and the population. Total free trade in Canada would mean the only people making any real money would be in the resource sector. Manufacturing would be a minor player, any secondary processing of raw materials would be unlikely to occur, and the standard of living for a large number of Canadians would decrease, while those in the resource sector would increase. With a small population where the majority of people can be employed in the resource sector, that could be a good thing. A larger population ( but not large enough to make our domestic markets large enough to support domestic manufacturing for domestic usage) total free trade would be a negative for Canada. The Can auto industry was not built through free trade, but managed trade, the majority of manufacturing in Canada has been built through managed trade. Realistically the only manufacturing that would occur in Canada on a significant basis would be to support our resource sector with total free trade. The US was built on the backs of tariffs, increasing the competitivenes of US business. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and now China have been built or are building based on managed trade (Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai would not exist with free trade)

    Overall free trade is fine between developed economies of a similar development status and roughly equivalent standards of living. Or if part of the free trade agreement also includes the labour market. Allowing for the labour to move freely between the countries to compete within each others labour markets
    Last edited by Lord Tammerlain; 07-27-11 at 06:39 PM.
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    Re: GE moving X-ray business to China

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Many countries rely on tariffs as a form of sales tax.
    And many countries use them to help develop domestic industries (if not to protect them)
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    Re: GE moving X-ray business to China

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    They're just growing more rapidly because they were so far behind, and the reason for their growth was the liberalization of their economies.
    Sure, I don't disagree.

    A free people with free trade can do wondrous things because, as the term implies, people are free to trade what is a betterment to themselves and their conditions.
    Unfortunately, not all things are done in black and white. China is happy to take a loss right now to gain market share.

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    Re: GE moving X-ray business to China

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Sure, I don't disagree.



    Unfortunately, not all things are done in black and white. China is happy to take a loss right now to gain market share.
    The Chinese are willing to work long and hard now to ensure they have a better future, and that their childern have a better future. They save a huge portion of their incomes to pay for better education for their childern, potential health care problems and for retirement. They have to save that money because they do not have a good social safety net other then family. Meaning most are not the type of consumers that we see in North America or parts of Europe. Some of the younger Chinese are different and do consume goods as much as North Americans do, but most still have to work hard and save alot. It is not so much about market share, but the willingness to work hard and save money, rather then work and spend money like most in the west
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    Re: GE moving X-ray business to China

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Sure, I don't disagree.



    Unfortunately, not all things are done in black and white. China is happy to take a loss right now to gain market share.
    Then it stops becoming free trade and becomes 'dumping'. That's illegal.

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    Re: GE moving X-ray business to China

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    The Chinese are willing to work long and hard now to ensure they have a better future, and that their childern have a better future. They save a huge portion of their incomes to pay for better education for their childern, potential health care problems and for retirement. They have to save that money because they do not have a good social safety net other then family. Meaning most are not the type of consumers that we see in North America or parts of Europe. Some of the younger Chinese are different and do consume goods as much as North Americans do, but most still have to work hard and save alot. It is not so much about market share, but the willingness to work hard and save money, rather then work and spend money like most in the west
    I'm living in Vancouver right now which. as you probably know, has many Chinese.

    One of them was telling me that Canada is third world when it comes to business. They can't understand why businesses close at 5pm or that offices aren't open 24 hours a day, or not rented out in shifts.

    They live, at least in parts, ia 24 hour world, while we still think in 8 hour terms,

    Success is usually the result of hard work and initiative. They are learning lessons we seem to have forgotten.

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    Re: GE moving X-ray business to China

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    In fact, I have seen many studies that say Wal Mart greatly contributes to our trade deficit because they import some many goods from China. Furthermore, outsourcing is a huge part of the free trade ideology.
    Wal-Mart's central business model is a discount superstore. It aims to offer its consumers the lowest prices and, to a very large extent, succeeds in achieving that goal. To have a chance to realize that goal, it needs to minimize its costs through economies of scale, low overhead, low-cost products. American suppliers have not been able to compete with numerous international suppliers. Hence, it makes sense for Wal-Mart to leverage its global reach to obtain the lowest price goods.

    High-end retailers have the luxury to compete on differentiation. Differentiation allows them to pass on higher costs to their customer base so long as customers value differentiation to the extent that they are willing to pay for it. Not every customer takes that approach. Otherwise, the discount superstore model would not be viable.

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    Re: GE moving X-ray business to China

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I'm living in Vancouver right now which. as you probably know, has many Chinese.

    One of them was telling me that Canada is third world when it comes to business. They can't understand why businesses close at 5pm or that offices aren't open 24 hours a day, or not rented out in shifts.

    They live, at least in parts, ia 24 hour world, while we still think in 8 hour terms,

    Success is usually the result of hard work and initiative. They are learning lessons we seem to have forgotten.

    It does come down to a trade off, of what you can gain, and what you can lose from working so hard and for so long.

    Canada and the US both have good social safety nets, and both countries have reasonable standards of living, that will ensure most have all their basic needs covered and then some. Only those that are truely dropouts of society will suffer by living on the streets (from drug addicts to those with mental illness's). Everyone else despite losing their job, or suffering from a major illness will have at least their basic needs covered. This does allow for most people to have significant free time to do with as they wish (although it is often wasted as well). Would I want to work the 12-14 hours a day 6 to 7 days a week that some Chinese factory workers have to, by god know. The gains that I would get, would definately not outweigh the loses I would have. If I had my own business, where success was determined by the long hours, and would potentially allow for a significant increase in my wealth and income then yes I probably would. But not as a hourly worker or salaried employee
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    Re: GE moving X-ray business to China

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Wal-Mart's central business model is a discount superstore. It aims to offer its consumers the lowest prices and, to a very large extent, succeeds in achieving that goal. To have a chance to realize that goal, it needs to minimize its costs through economies of scale, low overhead, low-cost products. American suppliers have not been able to compete with numerous international suppliers. Hence, it makes sense for Wal-Mart to leverage its global reach to obtain the lowest price goods.

    High-end retailers have the luxury to compete on differentiation. Differentiation allows them to pass on higher costs to their customer base so long as customers value differentiation to the extent that they are willing to pay for it. Not every customer takes that approach. Otherwise, the discount superstore model would not be viable.
    High end retailers also do not tend to source products from the US. With Europe being the dominate force in luxury goods. The Euro brands dominate that market world wide. The US has tended to be a mid market player in consumer goods, and the mid market outide of autos and homes is a shrinking market. The emerging markets go for a combination of the low end goods and the high end goods. Or stuff that is durable and high quality for certain goods ( homes and home furnishing in China suprised me to no end on how good they were)
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