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Thread: GE moving X-ray business to China

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    Re: GE moving X-ray business to China

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    The fault is on the ideology of free trade and free traders, for believing this is going to end up making all of us better off in the long run.
    Where's the problem?

    In fact it does work and history tells us so.

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    Re: GE moving X-ray business to China

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Canada has free trade with quite a few countries and is doing very well.

    Negotiations and Agreements, by Category
    Now exactly why is Canada doing well?

    At least compared with the US

    Our financial industry is more tightly regulated, our environmental laws are generally similar, personal income taxes are higher in Canada, our social spending on average is higher then that of the US. Our manufacturing industry is declining (it is moving to Asia, the US or Mexico.

    Canada is doing well right now for three main reasons, our financial industry did not put out nearly as many bad loans as the US (tighter regulation) so even though we have had a similar increase in housing prices, we have not had the bust (as of yet). The second reason is commodity prices, oil, metals, agriculture all have had prices remain relatively high despite the slowdown in the US ( we can thank China and India for that primarily). Last but not least, the total US collapse that could have occurred, along with the total collapse in consumer spending in the US did not occur (government stimulus to the rescue)

    Free trade is not the savings grace of Canadian jobs, the commodity sector is. Free trade has done little for Canada, and will do little for Canada in the future. Selling iron ore to India, does not require a free trade agreement, and with a free trade agreement we are not going to be selling rolled steel to India or South Korea ( Canadian mills can not compete with the cost of Indian mills, or the quality of South Korean ones )
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  3. #113
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    Re: GE moving X-ray business to China

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Well you can triple the tariffs on a pair of shoes, for example. so that the consumer pays three times more for the product than they usually would. Somebody has to pay. Tariffs are usually just a form of protectionism (or a money grab) and works against the economy of those installing the tariffs. It might make us feel safer over the very short term but reality inevitably intrudes on these dreams.
    We did fine before 1995 when the world trade origination was founded.



    Americans can compete with anyone, and have demonstrated that for decades. But they have to look at the policies and revisit the ideas that made them that way.
    How do you compete against companies that pay their workers 2-4 dollars a day and do not have to abide by the same environmental and safety laws that we do? Do we make slavery in the US legal again? Do we toss out all our safety and environmental laws? Do we demand that the federal government gives us tax credits for buying American made goods? Do American companies cut so many corners that the goods they sell are pieces of junk?
    Last edited by jamesrage; 07-27-11 at 05:53 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: GE moving X-ray business to China

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Do you have specifics you would like to see?
    In what way?

    The Americans need a dramatic boost to their spirit, that's certain, and they have to stop vilifying each other. There are many ways to start doing this but I'm not certain the will is there anymore

    A new President certainly. There should be no class warfare or race baiting. That's no way too run a country, and everything flows from the top.

    It's trickle down optimism that's needed, not what you have now.

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    Re: GE moving X-ray business to China

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    We did fine before 1995 when the world trade origination was founded.





    How do you compete against companies that pay their workers 2-4 dollars a day and do not have to abide by the same environmental and safety laws that we do? Do we make slavery in the US legal again? Do we toss out all our safety and environmental laws? Do we demand that the federal government gives us tax credits for buying American made goods?
    You'd be far more competitive if the country wasn't mired in foreign debt, and borrowing over $4 billion more every day to try to keep above water. yet anyone who says they should try to control spending is "right wing"". If this is the attitude of the general public then the United States will simply not recover. It's impossible..

    Here's what happened in Canada. It could make for some interesting reading..

    Canada then, America now

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    Re: GE moving X-ray business to China

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    This is all true. A lot of people here are ****ing stupid and not willing to invest money in innovation and infrastructure because investing = spending, and people are on an anti spending for anything and everything crusade.
    but is it any wonder? in 2010 our government collected nearly 2.4 trillion dollars .... and spend 1.4 trillion dollars more then it took in .. (the figures are nearly the same for 2011) yet in 1990 our governments income was just over a trillion dollars ... and we spend 221 billion more then we took in . .

    So just do the math ... we've given the government over 1 trillion dollars more to spend since 1990, and what did they do ... they spend that trillion dollars .. plus another 1.5 trillion they didn't have. people are just fed up with the spending, they are fed up with Republicans and Democrats spending like a drunken sailor.

    People from all walks of life, from both parties .. are are saying enough already. I'm one of them, that can certainly understand where they are coming from. In 21 years we've doubled the government revenue, and they have increased their deficit spending by nearly 8 fold . My attitude has always been, show me you can stop the spending spree, that you can rein it in. Once you show me you can control you habit that has been out of control for 20 years ...... then come back to ask us to help get us out of this mess with more in taxes. But if you think I am going to trust them to cut spending ... just because they "say" they are... aint gonna happen .. I've seen 30 years of uncontrolled spending, and heard this song and dance time and time again. This time they are going to have to show me.

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    Re: GE moving X-ray business to China

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    They're competing, and doing quite well in the process. They countries use quality too gain advantage, people are willing to pay for it, and they do very well as a result.


    It really shouldn't be a mystery but now Americans, the last ones who should be doing this, are talking of protectionism, tariffs, and setting up walls. It's an amazing turnaround for this once so successful nation,
    A big difference between American and Japan and Germany is the American attitude towards economics. Americans focus on cost and think competition is all about cost, competing with China's cheap labor, busting unions, Wal mart, etc. anything that will drive down cost because in America, that's the only competitive strategy they know... supply side economics. Walmart is huge, and America is practically running up a trade deficit because of Wal mart and other similar engagements with China. We basically borrow money from China, so we can buy a bunch of cheap **** from China. All China has to do is keep investing in their country, innovation, infrastructure, then suddenly give the people more worker rights, and Americans will be ****ed and be at a huge disadvantage.

    Japan and Germany value quality over mass producing ****ty quality goods and mass distributing them. Germany protested when Wal Mart tried to open shop in Germany. The German people have a different attitude than Americans, and Germany has never had the a problem with Chinese made toys containing toxins or date rape drugs either like America has. German and European made toys are more expensive than the ones you find in Wal mart, but that's their attitude. They can also afford to buy them, because they aren't shipping jobs out. They also have strong worker rights and unions, and Germany has decided to drive the world economy in terms of green innovation. It's risky, but they have the drive to try it and the desire to succeed. I think America had that innovation attitude 50 some years ago, where did it go?

    In American business schools, we actually study a lot about the Japanese now. A lot of my classes were full of people from China studying in American business schools also. Both Germany and Japan have phrases that can't be translated into simple English that refer to manufacturing processes that add and create value. They are willing to pay more, because that's their attitude. Even homes are smaller, but they are more expensive. They don't view workers the same as American's do... Their attitudes are way different, and American's attitude is really hurting us, literally. The Chinese are giving us toxic goods, yet we haven't initiated any new policies or tried to fight the direction our economy is headed in. Doing so would just result in an outpouring from our political system, any policies or regulations on businesses to prevent such products will RAISE YOUR PRICES, and that's bad for you.

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    Re: GE moving X-ray business to China

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I would argue that the fault has less to do with free trade and more to do with national competitive advantages. For example, in 2010, the U.S. had a $273 billion trade deficit with China, with almost $4 in imports for every dollar in exports. Meanwhile, using a $1.40 Euro-Dollar exchange rate, Germany had a much more modest $32 billion trade deficit with China. In that case, Germany imported $1.43 for every dollar it exported.
    The trade deficit is the result of us outsourcing manufacturing and jobs to China. In fact, I have seen many studies that say Wal Mart greatly contributes to our trade deficit because they import some many goods from China. Furthermore, outsourcing is a huge part of the free trade ideology.

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    Re: GE moving X-ray business to China

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You'd be far more competitive if the country wasn't mired in foreign debt, and borrowing over $4 billion more every day to try to keep above water. yet anyone who says they should try to control spending is "right wing"". If this is the attitude of the general public then the United States will simply not recover. It's impossible..

    Here's what happened in Canada. It could make for some interesting reading..

    Canada then, America now
    I think that most Americans realize that spending needs to be cut, and revenue needs to be raised. But the devil is in the details, i.e., where it should be cut and how it should be raised.

    As far as protectionism goes, the bottom line is that it doesn't work. Sure, you can slap tariffs on foreign products to make domestic products more competitive -- in this country. But that will only result in other countries slapping tariffs on American products. That's not such a great deal for American companies, given the fact that the fastest growing markets are all foreign markets. One of the few bright spots in the economy is manufacturing, but much of that strength is being driven by exports (see Caterpillar, for example). Of course protectionism is also incredibly inflationary.

    Beyond that, offshoring of jobs isn't the main driver of unemployment. Automation is the main driver. If you have a Chinese company employing 1000 drones to assemble widgets, and you impose a tariff to move production here, an American company isn't going to pay 1000 people to make the same widgets. They may employ 50 to run the automated assembly line.

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    Re: GE moving X-ray business to China

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    In what way?

    The Americans need a dramatic boost to their spirit, that's certain, and they have to stop vilifying each other. There are many ways to start doing this but I'm not certain the will is there anymore

    A new President certainly. There should be no class warfare or race baiting. That's no way too run a country, and everything flows from the top.

    It's trickle down optimism that's needed, not what you have now.
    A new president won't change it... The country is divided.

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