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House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

of course it was NOT. here is what he said: "The House has passed a bill to raise the debt limit with bipartisan support. ". PATENTLY UNTRUE, when only 5 of the up votes were by dems. partisan by any stretch of the imagination, and you are off base calling it anything but partisan.

Per the definition of the word "bipartisan" his statement was accurate. You have to change the definition of the word to make his statement a lie.
 
Per the definition of the word "bipartisan" his statement was accurate. You have to change the definition of the word to make his statement a lie.

You're just playing at semantics. Everyone knows that it was a party-line vote and Boehner was clearly being disingenous: pretending it was something that it was not.
 
I think pretty much the White House and everyone in Congress is in fail mode. What are the Democrats in Congress doing besides sitting back and sniping at the Republicans and Obama?
 
You're just playing at semantics. Everyone knows that it was a party-line vote and Boehner was clearly being disingenous: pretending it was something that it was not.

No, he's being factual based on the definition of the word. You're the one playing the word game here, not me.
 
The House passed a bill, the Senate has refused to take it up. Obama has just again today, vowed to veto it should it come to his desk. No one else has a written plan (other than previous committee's like Bowels Simpson who's suggestions were ignored by this Administration), and I have to say, the freshman Republicans in the house are holding firm and not giving into the typical Washington BS. They've got some spine and I like that. Finally. Both sides aren't rolling over and compromising (compromise in this case means screw over the American people with a bad deal).
 
This intraparty issue is probably the key factor that has tied Speaker Boehner's hands. The failure of Republicans to agree on a common goal has weakened Speaker Boehner's position. It is a problem that has festered for some time, in part, because Speaker Boehner is not sufficiently strong to bring the more uncompromising elements into reasonable compliance over a common goal. It is also a consequence of the intraparty rivalry between Speaker Boehner and Majority Leader Cantor.

That Cantor strongly backed the Speaker today doesn't mean that the corrosive dynamic can immediately be overcome. The reality is that a significant share of Republicans is probably not going to support a debt limit increase under virtually any circumstances. If, in the end, their instransigence is not met by some internal punishment e.g., concerning Committee assignments, the incentives for such intransigence could remain strong. Then, it is entirely plausible, that those holding the most extreme positions could exercise a sort of veto over Republican policy making. Such a situation would undermine Speaker Boehner's negotiating credibility and make it more difficult for the full House to forge bipartisan consensus. In turn, the absence of such consensus would promote further gridlock, leading to greater distrust among the two parties and growing frustration within each party.

IMO, it is imperative that the House Leadership make abundantly clear that Republicans must support the debt ceiling package on Wednesday and then any package that is reconciled with the Senate (the Senate version will differ) given the enormous stakes involved. Such a strong stand might be anti-democratic, but the consequences of a failure to raise the debt ceiling are sufficiently grave that Congressional leaders need to be willing to impose agreement, if necessary, to avert such an outcome. Occasionally, leaders need to take large risks and expend substantial political capital. This is one situation where such risktaking and expenditure of political capital is necessary.
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THey have supported and actually passed a package.
 
This intraparty issue is probably the key factor that has tied Speaker Boehner's hands. The failure of Republicans to agree on a common goal has weakened Speaker Boehner's position. It is a problem that has festered for some time, in part, because Speaker Boehner is not sufficiently strong to bring the more uncompromising elements into reasonable compliance over a common goal. It is also a consequence of the intraparty rivalry between Speaker Boehner and Majority Leader Cantor.

That Cantor strongly backed the Speaker today doesn't mean that the corrosive dynamic can immediately be overcome. The reality is that a significant share of Republicans is probably not going to support a debt limit increase under virtually any circumstances. If, in the end, their instransigence is not met by some internal punishment e.g., concerning Committee assignments, the incentives for such intransigence could remain strong. Then, it is entirely plausible, that those holding the most extreme positions could exercise a sort of veto over Republican policy making. Such a situation would undermine Speaker Boehner's negotiating credibility and make it more difficult for the full House to forge bipartisan consensus. In turn, the absence of such consensus would promote further gridlock, leading to greater distrust among the two parties and growing frustration within each party.

IMO, it is imperative that the House Leadership make abundantly clear that Republicans must support the debt ceiling package on Wednesday and then any package that is reconciled with the Senate (the Senate version will differ) given the enormous stakes involved. Such a strong stand might be anti-democratic, but the consequences of a failure to raise the debt ceiling are sufficiently grave that Congressional leaders need to be willing to impose agreement, if necessary, to avert such an outcome. Occasionally, leaders need to take large risks and expend substantial political capital. This is one situation where such risktaking and expenditure of political capital is necessary.

Totally agree. Hence, I wonder if anyone else noticed Boehner tone when he said to members of his party that:

a) there were things in the debt limit proposal members of his party may not like but should support (or words to that effect); and,

b) he was hopeful that his Republican colleagues in the Senate could pass similar legislation the had spending cuts.

Boehner knows nothing he sends to the House will get passed w/o spending cuts, entitlement reform and the types of makeshift spending controls, i.e., balanced budget amendment, that the Tea Party wants.

I want to be clear here, folks: I understand the concerns the Tea Party has concerning our national debt and the deficit. However, issues such as entitlement reform and deficit reduction should never be made part of raising the debt limit. As this article from ThinkProgressive clearly indicates, such matters should be deal with separate from the debt limit debate.

Republicans, when faced with the default of their country, are willing to vote to raise the debt ceiling; this indicates that it is perhaps unneccesary to strike any sort of deficit reduction deal at all to win their votes. If Republicans and Democrats want to strike a grand bargain on deficit reduction, they can certainly do that in the context of the budget appropriations process rather than holding the debt limit hostage.

Hence, if you really paid attention to the President's speech last night, you know he gave the GOP two-options:

1. $4T in cuts for $1T in revenue; or,

2. A near even $2.8T in cuts for about the same in a debt limit increase with no revenue.

So, if you're deficit hawks, you take Option 1.

If you just want to raise the debt limit as Congress has always done in the past but still be assured of off-setting spending cuts, you take Option 2.

Again, Boehner knows he can't get either passed in the House, so he's calling on the Senate to "bail him AND his party out". Listen and learn how to filter out the white noise of politics.
 
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Oh, come off it. The bill that Boehner is suggesting has no tax reform, just spending cuts. The bill that Reid is building honestly isn’t that different. Apples and oranges here, folks: both spherical citrus fruits with parts that you can’t eat, just different colors. “Bipartisanship” is a joke- in the end, the McConnell plan will probably kick into effect, granting Obama the powers he needs to make sure we don’t default. That will just give the Congress more time to pass Boehner’s bill, which will wind up just cutting spending and not doing tax reform. This country won’t improve until the Republicans learn that taxes are just as important as spending cuts when we’re worried about fixing a debt, and that won’t be for a long time. Pretty much the only way this is going to work is for a) Cantor to get off his high horse b)Reid to give the Democrats an order to agree to Boehner’s bill. It sucks, but it’s the way life goes.
 
So, if you're deficit hawks, you take Option 1.

You take nothing of the sort because there is no way to gaurantee these cuts.

If you just want to raise the debt limit as Congress has always done in the past but still be assured of off-setting spending cuts, you take Option 2.

Simply off setting costs is not good enough any longer.

Again, Boehner knows he can't get either passed in the House, so he's calling on the Senate to "bail him AND his party out". Listen and learn how to filter out the white noise of politics.

There isn't much of substance to filter out. The White House admits today that they have no plan.

Carney Gets Hit for Ten Minutes on The Obama Plan - By Daniel Foster - The Corner - National Review Online
 
1Perry,

It's not up to the President nor his Administration to put forth a debt limit or deficit reduction plan. That is and always has been the job of C-O-N-G-R-E-S-S!!! They are the ones who deal with submitting bills w/appropriations. Every time I hear a Republican come back with this same retort, I point them right back to Art 1, Sections 8 and 9 of the Constitution as "appropriations" is but one of their enumerated powers, NOT the President.

Now, the President IS required by law to submit a budget every year not later than early February (I think it's no later than the 6th), but it then becomes C-O-N-G-R-E-S-S' responsibility to appropriate funds accordingly should they approve his budget plan or if not to come up with a budget themselves.

Process...learn it! But I digress...

Here's an article from the Examiner that might just help to put this debt limit debate in perspective and illustrate just how seamless this process should actually be as opposed to how contentious it has become.

Some might argue that the Democrats controlled the Congress for some of the Bush presidency, and while that is partially true, from 2002 to 2006 the Republicans had control of both chambers of Congress, and they voted for three massive debt limit increases in that time with no demands for spending cuts.

The above mirros the commentary in the ThinkProgressive article. These debt limit talks should have been a mere formality. Instead, they've become so politisized. It needs to end; the GOP have been given 2 options. I should hope they choose one of them and not drag these discussions on any further, thereby putting the country further at risk of default and a negative credit rating.
 
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1Perry,

It's not up to the President nor his Administration to put forth a debt limit or deficit reduction plan. That is and always has been the job of C-O-N-G-R-E-S-S!!! They are the ones who deal with submitting bills w/appropriations. Every time I hear a Republican come back with this same retort, I point them right back to Art 1, Sections 8 and 9 of the Constitution as "appropriations" is but one of their enumerated powers, NOT the President.

Now, the President IS required by law to submit a budget every year not later than early February (I think it's no later than the 6th), but it then becomes C-O-N-G-R-E-S-S' responsibility to appropriate funds accordingly should they approve his budget plan or if not to come up with a budget themselves.

Process...learn it! But I digress...

Here's an article from the Examiner that might just help to put this debt limit debate in perspective and illustrate just how seamless this process should actually be as opposed to how contentious it has become.

"present"...
 
I want to be clear here, folks: I understand the concerns the Tea Party has concerning our national debt and the deficit. However, issues such as entitlement reform and deficit reduction should never be made part of raising the debt limit. As this article from ThinkProgressive clearly indicates, such matters should be deal with separate from the debt limit debate.
Once it's separated from the debt limit debate, it's dead. The only way there's a chance for it to be passed is to combine it and keep it combined.
 
Ockham,

Not necessarily.

Cantor's the Minority Whip in the House, right? The Tea Party wants entitlement reform. Why not go about the process the right way and allow Cantor to co-sponder a bill to do just that? I understand why the Tea Party and some Republicans are pushing to include entitlement reforms as a condition of raising the debt limit, but it's a wasted ploy. The American people will never allow either party to play these games with the soveignty or credit worthiness and/or the very posterity of the country at stake. It's a fool's notion to think otherwise, and Boehnor knows it! He also knows that each time the threat of a government shutdown has ensued it's come at the hands of the GOP. Do you really think the People won't remember this come election time? That's TWICE THIS YEAR our government has been threatened to be "closed for business" at the hands of Republican leadership, and for what? For the preservation of one's own position within their party heiarchy? To win and/or establish control?

Understand, what's happening right now in our national politic is a well conceived plan that can easily be found between the pages of one book in particular, "Revolt!" Only things aren't going quite as planned now, are they? (Thank God!) The irony here is the revolt seems to be coming from Boehner's own party. (Some members of the DC political elite - GOPers - are playing a very dangerous game.)
 
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Fark says ...

Republican House Speaker John Boehner: "I'm not gonna do what everyone thinks I'm gonna do and... FLIP OUT man... all I wanna know is one thing... who's coming with me?" House Republicans: Ahem *crickets*
 
bi·par·ti·san   /baɪˈpɑrtəzən/ Show Spelled[bahy-pahr-tuh-zuhn] Show IPA
adjective
representing, characterized by, or including members from two parties or factions:

So yeah, it is bipartisan, as people from two parties voted on it.

Ha,ha, is that the conservative spin?:lol:

Then I guess we can consider the Stimulus a bipartisan vote, and the conservatives need to stop whining about it - they voted for it!
 
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Like many of his fellow GOP upstarts, Walsh is vehemently opposed to the President's agenda. Walsh posted a video on his House website that accused the President of misleading senior citizens about the possibility that Social Security checks could be delayed if the U.S. hits the debt ceiling.

"President Obama, quit lying," Walsh said in the video.

It's that kind of rhetoric that has veterans of past budget battles in Washington bracing for the worst. Alice Rivlin, a former member of President Obama's debt commission, believes the tea partiers in the GOP House are out to "frustrate" the president at every turn.

"I have never seen anything like this. I think it's very scary and very embarrassing for our system of government," Rivlin told CNN.

Political extremes calling the shots? – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs
 
From the WashingtonTimes.com:



Seems the failed leadership is on Speaker Boehner.

How many democrats voted for the ONLY budget proposal Obama has ever submitted? What was the vote in the senate again...something to ZERO...something...90...something...97...wasnt it? 97 to ZERO...That there is some high quality leadership booooyyyy! And how many budgets did the democrats even PROPOSE during Pelosi's reign...ummm...ZERO...that number again.

look...no one has the high ground here. Yes...it was foolish to state that what...7 democrats voting for the Cap Cut and Balance legislation was bi-partisan. However...wasnt the Boehner-Reid agreement pretty much a joint effort?

And...side note...thank GOD for republican congressmen that dont just cave on positions they believe in. Why...that trend keeps up we might actually have a legislature that is people and principle and not PARTY driven.
 


I guess so, since Boehner had to check with Rush Limbaugh to find out what his next move should be! Republican leaders are relying on "radio talk show hosts" to tell them what they should do - that's comforting to know! Doesn't speak well for "Speaker of the House" - can you imagine the backlash if Obama were to check with Bill Maher to tell him what to do! Unbelievable!

Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) outlined the GOP's debt-ceiling plan to conservative commentator Rush Limbaugh on Monday before showing it to his conference.

On Monday during his radio program, Limbaugh talked about the call he received from Boehner…

John Boehner Checks in with His Boss Rush Limbaugh Before Presenting Debt Plan | Indecision Forever | Political Humor and Satire Blog | 2012 Election | Comedy Central

 
How many democrats voted for the ONLY budget proposal Obama has ever submitted? What was the vote in the senate again...something to ZERO...something...90...something...97...wasnt it? 97 to ZERO...That there is some high quality leadership booooyyyy! And how many budgets did the democrats even PROPOSE during Pelosi's reign...ummm...ZERO...that number again.

look...no one has the high ground here. Yes...it was foolish to state that what...7 democrats voting for the Cap Cut and Balance legislation was bi-partisan. However...wasnt the Boehner-Reid agreement pretty much a joint effort?

And...side note...thank GOD for republican congressmen that dont just cave on positions they believe in. Why...that trend keeps up we might actually have a legislature that is people and principle and not PARTY driven.
You mean like the Republican party's plan to make President Obama a one-term president at all cost even if it means bringing down the nation's economy? That plan?

As to the Senate vote against the President's budget, as I've stated in this thread:

Objective Voice said:
rejected in the Senate not because it wasn't serious, but because for Republicans it called for eliminating the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy - something the GOP will not back away from - and the Dems learned of the President's intentions to propose still more spending cuts and would rather have seen the high cost cuts take affect than what was originally proposed.

So, take the President's February budget of $1 trillion in spending cuts and leave an additional $2-3 trillion on the table, or reject the President's plan and seek more cuts? Which would you choose? Of course a plan that was proposed in February but wasn't brought to a vote until May would be rejected if the 2nd plan was better. Who wouldn't accept the latter over the former?

For more details, see this article from the Hill:

The president’s budget called for ending tax cuts for the wealthy and a three-year domestic spending freeze, saving an estimated $1.1 trillion over 10 years. Democratic senators at the time called it “an important step forward”, “a good start” and a “credible blueprint.”

No Democratic senator was willing to support it, however, after Obama discussed a more ambitious plan at George Washington University to save $4 trillion over 12 years. Republicans criticized his speech for lacking detail.
 
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This is just another show of far right Demanding nutjob teapartiers....they are going to crash and burn eventually with the american people
 
Hell …. the only house of government to pass any bill …. has been the Cap Cut and Balance legislation …. so the republicans have done their job, I guess what we should do is to urge the senate to follow the lead of democrats like Pelosi..... and the health care bill … you remember .. she said “But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy. “

Well lets just go ahead and pass the Cap Cut and Balance bill … hell don't have to worry about reading it or nothing like that .. we can find out what's in it later .. there problem solved .. the way the democrats like it solved.
 
As I've stated in this thread:

For more details, see this article from the Hill:

So again...NO democrats voted for it, right? I mean...since the hackish intent of the OP was to insinuate Boehner is a piss poor leader because he couldnt get ENOUGH GOP to vote for it, the fact that NO democrat would so much as take one for their leader and only 3 merely abstained...that speaks VOLUMES about his leadership...right?
 
But here's the difference, VanceMack: The Dems would have voted for the President's budget if he hadn't presented them with a better alternative (indirectly though it was presented), whereas the Speaker's bill was rejected out-of-hand. Just so we're clear on what really happened and why:

The Senate voted unanimously on Wednesday to reject a $3.7 trillion budget plan that President Obama sent to Capitol Hill in February.

Ninety-seven senators voted against a motion to take it up.

Democratic aides said ahead of the vote that the Democratic caucus would not support the plan because it has been supplanted by the deficit-reduction plan Obama outlined at a speech at George Washington University in April.

Taken directly from the Hill article linked above. Had you bothered to read it, you wouldn't have come back with such a lame retort. Still, let's not get it twisted.
 
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So again...NO democrats voted for it, right? I mean...since the hackish intent of the OP was to insinuate Boehner is a piss poor leader because he couldnt get ENOUGH GOP to vote for it, the fact that NO democrat would so much as take one for their leader and only 3 merely abstained...that speaks VOLUMES about his leadership...right?

Dems didn't vote for it because it had already been revised by the administration. It only came up for a vote because republicans were moping over the rejection of Ryan's nutty budget.
 
It's not up to the President nor his Administration to put forth a debt limit or deficit reduction plan. That is and always has been the job of C-O-N-G-R-E-S-S!!!

the party in power in upper parliament is well on three years without a budget---in times like these

the president is the leader of his party

Here's an article that might just help to put this debt limit debate in perspective and illustrate just how seamless this process should actually be

the party once preferred seamless

Harry Reid calls for clean debt ceiling vote - Meredith Shiner - POLITICO.com

the party has moved more than six trillion dollars towards austerity since then

april was ages ago

The Tea Party wants entitlement reform. Why not go about the process the right way and allow Cantor to co-sponder a bill to do just that?

House Passes Ryan's 2012 Budget Plan : NPR

You mean like the Republican party's plan to make President Obama a one-term president at all cost even if it means bringing down the nation's economy? That plan?

you're getting hysterical
 
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