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Thread: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

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    Re: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    This intraparty issue is probably the key factor that has tied Speaker Boehner's hands. The failure of Republicans to agree on a common goal has weakened Speaker Boehner's position. It is a problem that has festered for some time, in part, because Speaker Boehner is not sufficiently strong to bring the more uncompromising elements into reasonable compliance over a common goal. It is also a consequence of the intraparty rivalry between Speaker Boehner and Majority Leader Cantor.

    That Cantor strongly backed the Speaker today doesn't mean that the corrosive dynamic can immediately be overcome. The reality is that a significant share of Republicans is probably not going to support a debt limit increase under virtually any circumstances. If, in the end, their instransigence is not met by some internal punishment e.g., concerning Committee assignments, the incentives for such intransigence could remain strong. Then, it is entirely plausible, that those holding the most extreme positions could exercise a sort of veto over Republican policy making. Such a situation would undermine Speaker Boehner's negotiating credibility and make it more difficult for the full House to forge bipartisan consensus. In turn, the absence of such consensus would promote further gridlock, leading to greater distrust among the two parties and growing frustration within each party.

    IMO, it is imperative that the House Leadership make abundantly clear that Republicans must support the debt ceiling package on Wednesday and then any package that is reconciled with the Senate (the Senate version will differ) given the enormous stakes involved. Such a strong stand might be anti-democratic, but the consequences of a failure to raise the debt ceiling are sufficiently grave that Congressional leaders need to be willing to impose agreement, if necessary, to avert such an outcome. Occasionally, leaders need to take large risks and expend substantial political capital. This is one situation where such risktaking and expenditure of political capital is necessary.
    e

    THey have supported and actually passed a package.

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    Re: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    This intraparty issue is probably the key factor that has tied Speaker Boehner's hands. The failure of Republicans to agree on a common goal has weakened Speaker Boehner's position. It is a problem that has festered for some time, in part, because Speaker Boehner is not sufficiently strong to bring the more uncompromising elements into reasonable compliance over a common goal. It is also a consequence of the intraparty rivalry between Speaker Boehner and Majority Leader Cantor.

    That Cantor strongly backed the Speaker today doesn't mean that the corrosive dynamic can immediately be overcome. The reality is that a significant share of Republicans is probably not going to support a debt limit increase under virtually any circumstances. If, in the end, their instransigence is not met by some internal punishment e.g., concerning Committee assignments, the incentives for such intransigence could remain strong. Then, it is entirely plausible, that those holding the most extreme positions could exercise a sort of veto over Republican policy making. Such a situation would undermine Speaker Boehner's negotiating credibility and make it more difficult for the full House to forge bipartisan consensus. In turn, the absence of such consensus would promote further gridlock, leading to greater distrust among the two parties and growing frustration within each party.

    IMO, it is imperative that the House Leadership make abundantly clear that Republicans must support the debt ceiling package on Wednesday and then any package that is reconciled with the Senate (the Senate version will differ) given the enormous stakes involved. Such a strong stand might be anti-democratic, but the consequences of a failure to raise the debt ceiling are sufficiently grave that Congressional leaders need to be willing to impose agreement, if necessary, to avert such an outcome. Occasionally, leaders need to take large risks and expend substantial political capital. This is one situation where such risktaking and expenditure of political capital is necessary.
    Totally agree. Hence, I wonder if anyone else noticed Boehner tone when he said to members of his party that:

    a) there were things in the debt limit proposal members of his party may not like but should support (or words to that effect); and,

    b) he was hopeful that his Republican colleagues in the Senate could pass similar legislation the had spending cuts.

    Boehner knows nothing he sends to the House will get passed w/o spending cuts, entitlement reform and the types of makeshift spending controls, i.e., balanced budget amendment, that the Tea Party wants.

    I want to be clear here, folks: I understand the concerns the Tea Party has concerning our national debt and the deficit. However, issues such as entitlement reform and deficit reduction should never be made part of raising the debt limit. As this article from ThinkProgressive clearly indicates, such matters should be deal with separate from the debt limit debate.

    Republicans, when faced with the default of their country, are willing to vote to raise the debt ceiling; this indicates that it is perhaps unneccesary to strike any sort of deficit reduction deal at all to win their votes. If Republicans and Democrats want to strike a grand bargain on deficit reduction, they can certainly do that in the context of the budget appropriations process rather than holding the debt limit hostage.
    Hence, if you really paid attention to the President's speech last night, you know he gave the GOP two-options:

    1. $4T in cuts for $1T in revenue; or,

    2. A near even $2.8T in cuts for about the same in a debt limit increase with no revenue.

    So, if you're deficit hawks, you take Option 1.

    If you just want to raise the debt limit as Congress has always done in the past but still be assured of off-setting spending cuts, you take Option 2.

    Again, Boehner knows he can't get either passed in the House, so he's calling on the Senate to "bail him AND his party out". Listen and learn how to filter out the white noise of politics.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 07-26-11 at 06:08 PM.

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    Re: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

    Oh, come off it. The bill that Boehner is suggesting has no tax reform, just spending cuts. The bill that Reid is building honestly isn’t that different. Apples and oranges here, folks: both spherical citrus fruits with parts that you can’t eat, just different colors. “Bipartisanship” is a joke- in the end, the McConnell plan will probably kick into effect, granting Obama the powers he needs to make sure we don’t default. That will just give the Congress more time to pass Boehner’s bill, which will wind up just cutting spending and not doing tax reform. This country won’t improve until the Republicans learn that taxes are just as important as spending cuts when we’re worried about fixing a debt, and that won’t be for a long time. Pretty much the only way this is going to work is for a) Cantor to get off his high horse b)Reid to give the Democrats an order to agree to Boehner’s bill. It sucks, but it’s the way life goes.

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    Re: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    So, if you're deficit hawks, you take Option 1.
    You take nothing of the sort because there is no way to gaurantee these cuts.

    If you just want to raise the debt limit as Congress has always done in the past but still be assured of off-setting spending cuts, you take Option 2.
    Simply off setting costs is not good enough any longer.

    Again, Boehner knows he can't get either passed in the House, so he's calling on the Senate to "bail him AND his party out". Listen and learn how to filter out the white noise of politics.
    There isn't much of substance to filter out. The White House admits today that they have no plan.

    Carney Gets Hit for Ten Minutes on The Obama Plan - By Daniel Foster - The Corner - National Review Online

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    Re: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

    1Perry,

    It's not up to the President nor his Administration to put forth a debt limit or deficit reduction plan. That is and always has been the job of C-O-N-G-R-E-S-S!!! They are the ones who deal with submitting bills w/appropriations. Every time I hear a Republican come back with this same retort, I point them right back to Art 1, Sections 8 and 9 of the Constitution as "appropriations" is but one of their enumerated powers, NOT the President.

    Now, the President IS required by law to submit a budget every year not later than early February (I think it's no later than the 6th), but it then becomes C-O-N-G-R-E-S-S' responsibility to appropriate funds accordingly should they approve his budget plan or if not to come up with a budget themselves.

    Process...learn it! But I digress...

    Here's an article from the Examiner that might just help to put this debt limit debate in perspective and illustrate just how seamless this process should actually be as opposed to how contentious it has become.

    Some might argue that the Democrats controlled the Congress for some of the Bush presidency, and while that is partially true, from 2002 to 2006 the Republicans had control of both chambers of Congress, and they voted for three massive debt limit increases in that time with no demands for spending cuts.
    The above mirros the commentary in the ThinkProgressive article. These debt limit talks should have been a mere formality. Instead, they've become so politisized. It needs to end; the GOP have been given 2 options. I should hope they choose one of them and not drag these discussions on any further, thereby putting the country further at risk of default and a negative credit rating.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 07-26-11 at 06:32 PM.

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    Re: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    1Perry,

    It's not up to the President nor his Administration to put forth a debt limit or deficit reduction plan. That is and always has been the job of C-O-N-G-R-E-S-S!!! They are the ones who deal with submitting bills w/appropriations. Every time I hear a Republican come back with this same retort, I point them right back to Art 1, Sections 8 and 9 of the Constitution as "appropriations" is but one of their enumerated powers, NOT the President.

    Now, the President IS required by law to submit a budget every year not later than early February (I think it's no later than the 6th), but it then becomes C-O-N-G-R-E-S-S' responsibility to appropriate funds accordingly should they approve his budget plan or if not to come up with a budget themselves.

    Process...learn it! But I digress...

    Here's an article from the Examiner that might just help to put this debt limit debate in perspective and illustrate just how seamless this process should actually be as opposed to how contentious it has become.
    "present"...

  7. #37
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    Re: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I want to be clear here, folks: I understand the concerns the Tea Party has concerning our national debt and the deficit. However, issues such as entitlement reform and deficit reduction should never be made part of raising the debt limit. As this article from ThinkProgressive clearly indicates, such matters should be deal with separate from the debt limit debate.
    Once it's separated from the debt limit debate, it's dead. The only way there's a chance for it to be passed is to combine it and keep it combined.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

    Ockham,

    Not necessarily.

    Cantor's the Minority Whip in the House, right? The Tea Party wants entitlement reform. Why not go about the process the right way and allow Cantor to co-sponder a bill to do just that? I understand why the Tea Party and some Republicans are pushing to include entitlement reforms as a condition of raising the debt limit, but it's a wasted ploy. The American people will never allow either party to play these games with the soveignty or credit worthiness and/or the very posterity of the country at stake. It's a fool's notion to think otherwise, and Boehnor knows it! He also knows that each time the threat of a government shutdown has ensued it's come at the hands of the GOP. Do you really think the People won't remember this come election time? That's TWICE THIS YEAR our government has been threatened to be "closed for business" at the hands of Republican leadership, and for what? For the preservation of one's own position within their party heiarchy? To win and/or establish control?

    Understand, what's happening right now in our national politic is a well conceived plan that can easily be found between the pages of one book in particular, "Revolt!" Only things aren't going quite as planned now, are they? (Thank God!) The irony here is the revolt seems to be coming from Boehner's own party. (Some members of the DC political elite - GOPers - are playing a very dangerous game.)
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 07-26-11 at 06:45 PM.

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    Re: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

    Fark says ...

    Republican House Speaker John Boehner: "I'm not gonna do what everyone thinks I'm gonna do and... FLIP OUT man... all I wanna know is one thing... who's coming with me?" House Republicans: Ahem *crickets*

  10. #40
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    Re: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    bi·par·ti·san   /baɪˈpɑrtəzən/ Show Spelled[bahy-pahr-tuh-zuhn] Show IPA
    adjective
    representing, characterized by, or including members from two parties or factions:

    So yeah, it is bipartisan, as people from two parties voted on it.
    Ha,ha, is that the conservative spin?

    Then I guess we can consider the Stimulus a bipartisan vote, and the conservatives need to stop whining about it - they voted for it!
    Last edited by mertex; 07-26-11 at 08:31 PM.



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