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Thread: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

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    Re: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    I am bothered a great deal by the debt as well, but an amendment to the Constitution that says "you must balance the budget" isn't going to do much unless it is clearly drawn out - basically like a law would be.

    Here's how well Texas's balanced budget amendment did for them:

    3rd worst deficit in the country by budget.

    State Budget Gaps: How Does Your State Rank?
    Then shame on the citizens from the state of Texas. Personally...I believe balancing the federal budget will be much more do-able when they get out of the business of saving the planet. The fed should not be providing social services. That responsibility should belong to the individual citizens, their families, charitable organizations, and where needed local and state governments. The fed should not be involved in education. every state has a dept of education. same goes with transportation. Pay down the debt, return the responsibilities to the states, let the states be beholden to their citizens.

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    Re: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Then shame on the citizens from the state of Texas. Personally...I believe balancing the federal budget will be much more do-able when they get out of the business of saving the planet. The fed should not be providing social services. That responsibility should belong to the individual citizens, their families, charitable organizations, and where needed local and state governments. The fed should not be involved in education. every state has a dept of education. same goes with transportation. Pay down the debt, return the responsibilities to the states, let the states be beholden to their citizens.
    Fortunately the vast majority of Americans think otherwise.

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    Re: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Wouldn't it be nice if that were true! Unfortunately it doesn't quite work that way. Take Texas for example. They have a balanced budget amendment and they were staring a $27 BILLION deficit in the face (how 'bout them fiscal conservatives!). Obviously they had to cut $27 billion in spending, right?

    Not so much. Sure, they cut a lot of spending, but they also borrowed from their own rainy day fund and forced local governments all over the state to do the same. In essence it was just an accounting trick to allow the state to get around the balanced budget requirement. It was still deficit spending. Many other states have done the same thing (see Minnesota, for example).
    Each state should be beholden to their citizens. texas obviously has some work to do. However every state on that list is a piker when compared to the feds fiscal irresponsibility.

    I repeat...shame on us and shame on ANY of you that are so damned irresponsible that you endorse continuing to push our debt off on our grandchildren and great grandchildren. Me...I'm pissed. You should be too. But hey...if you want to continue to dump our irresponsibility on future generations...just keep voting dem and republican. Keep pretending theres a dimes worth of difference in the two major parties. Keep pretending one side is more responsible than the other for accumulating debt or that continuing this fiscal stupidity is someday somehow all going to magically make itself all better.

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    Re: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Fortunately the vast majority of Americans think otherwise.
    yes...fortunately. We are 15.5 trillion in debt and continuing to climb...We are so fortunate we are just dying in our self congratulation and good 'fortune'.

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    Re: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

    Fight, GOP. Fight. Keep fighting Obama. DO NOT COOPERATE WITH OBAMA. NEVER.
    NOTICE: I am not a troll, because what I write I believe, and I have no intention of derailing threads or manipulating human nature. I am not a terrorist, because I do not endorse the killing of innocent people, and I am not here to promote violence. I AM HERE ONLY TO EXPRESS MY PERSONAL OPINION AND ENJOY LIVELY DISCUSSION.

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    Re: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Each state should be beholden to their citizens. texas obviously has some work to do. However every state on that list is a piker when compared to the feds fiscal irresponsibility.

    I repeat...shame on us and shame on ANY of you that are so damned irresponsible that you endorse continuing to push our debt off on our grandchildren and great grandchildren. Me...I'm pissed. You should be too. But hey...if you want to continue to dump our irresponsibility on future generations...just keep voting dem and republican. Keep pretending theres a dimes worth of difference in the two major parties. Keep pretending one side is more responsible than the other for accumulating debt or that continuing this fiscal stupidity is someday somehow all going to magically make itself all better.
    Easy there, grandmother. Don't want to give yourself a heart attack just kidding but seriously though. 1. I would not argue that there's no different between Democrat and Republican. They both have very nice and very different ideas, they just both are obsessed with their fantasy lands where economics and politics follow ideals and not reality, and they have their head stuck in the sand with regards to reality. 2. The problem with supporting a 3rd political party is that the electoral system guarantees they won't be elected President. The Tea Party is already proving that 3rd parties can have an effect in Congress, but I think without they're being elected in high numbers to the Supreme Court, which I don't see happening, or getting the Presidency, they just don't have the power or the influence to make good police occur. 3. Just because someone endorses the policies of a Democrat or Republican doesn't mean they are automatically shoving the debt onto future generations. Look at the end of the Clinton administration when there was a surplus: good things can happen out of the two party system. It simply takes good leadership and consistent economic policy. Have faith

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    Re: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

    Quote Originally Posted by ElCid View Post
    Fight, GOP. Fight. Keep fighting Obama. DO NOT COOPERATE WITH OBAMA. NEVER.
    You have not a thing to worried about in terms of your party deciding to attack the President..... unless of course you actually love America and its people and are willing to crash the ship of state upon the rocks just so you can be a rabid GOP partisan and blame the captain.

    You will probably get your wish.
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    Re: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

    Quote Originally Posted by ElCid View Post
    Fight, GOP. Fight. Keep fighting Obama. DO NOT COOPERATE WITH OBAMA. NEVER.
    Keeping fighting, GOP. Screw America over, force us to default, keep the unemployment rate high and our debt higher...but keep fighting. Because even though the country you represent is being trampled beneath your feet, you have the moral high ground. F*ck reality...your imaginary fantasy where you're infighting causes no problems to the country you represent is superior.

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    Re: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Each state should be beholden to their citizens. texas obviously has some work to do. However every state on that list is a piker when compared to the feds fiscal irresponsibility.

    I repeat...shame on us and shame on ANY of you that are so damned irresponsible that you endorse continuing to push our debt off on our grandchildren and great grandchildren. Me...I'm pissed. You should be too. But hey...if you want to continue to dump our irresponsibility on future generations...just keep voting dem and republican. Keep pretending theres a dimes worth of difference in the two major parties. Keep pretending one side is more responsible than the other for accumulating debt or that continuing this fiscal stupidity is someday somehow all going to magically make itself all better.
    Okay...But I've expressed that I am concerned with the debt... In other threads, I expressed my support for the comprehensive plan that Boehner walked away from that would have cut about $2.8 trillion over the next decade and cut loopholes and simplified taxes to raise another $1.2 trillion in revenues. There was the potential for true reform there - reform created when government is split and therefore giving each side a say in how these reforms would work.

    Simply writing, "Congress must pass a balanced budget" on a piece of paper isn't reform. It's words on paper.

    If it didn't work in Texas, why would it work in Washington?

    Unless you believe that 100% of the population will suddenly begin voting 100% Republican, why should all reforms only come from one side of the political scale?

    Why would you pass a "plan" that essentially only puts us right back into this mess six months from now instead of one that creates real changes in the way our federal government works?

    I would argue because this is more about political victory than it is about reform.

    Democrats wanted a clean debt ceiling raise (as it has been done by both sides many times regardless of who was in the White House). Republicans said "No."

    Okay, Democrats say, fine we'll attach spending cuts to the measure, but let's have some revenue increases as well so we can close this financial gap. Republicans said "No."

    Okay, Democrats say, fine we'll propose just spending cuts, but let's make sure it goes through 2013 so we don't fall down this hole again in a few months. Republicans say "No."

    Can you see how someone on the other side begins to think this is only scoring political points when our side has caved already on so many things?

    The silliness is that one side claims to be the only ones proposing to do anything about it, when proposals from the other side have been rejected, walked away from, and ignored. And the simple fact of the matter is this: the House HAS to pass something that will make it through the Senate and get signed by the President. They do NOT get to do it 100% their way. The moment they recognize that is the moment this actually gets solved - at least to the point that it prevents the markets from continuing to fall (nearly 200 points yesterday, nearly 70 points at the moment of this writing today)...

    Finally, if our credit rating as a nation goes down and it forces interest rates up, that only ADDS to the debt. A .6% increase in our interest rate would result in an additional $1 Trillion being added to the national debt over the next decade. Not to mention that if people lose retirement funds due to market hits and pay more interest on existing loans (all loans are tied to the rate our government pays), they'll spend less and the economy will slow even further, which will lower revenues coming into government, only making the debt grow even more.

    That's why this is frustrating. My side has been far from perfect in this debate. I'll admit that. But when you think that you hold all the cards when you only hold about 1/3 of them, you look foolish and a bit delusional. And that delusion is starting to look dangerous to the well-being of everyone - not just the government.

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    Re: House GOP revolts against Boehner plan

    Well said.

    I would just add that a credit downgrade doesn't just impact the public debt. Private interest rates are based upon Treasury rates, so a downgrade would also raise the cost of personal and business loans. Just what we need.

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