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Thread: Far right domestic terrorism on par with foreign threat, experts say

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    Far right domestic terrorism on par with foreign threat, experts say

    Let me process this for a moment...

    It's become a common trend to argue that in order to exercise a right provided to the people by the Second Amendment, one must be part of a militia. However, we now find out...

    Right wing anti-government groups grew by 60% in 2010 over the previous year, the center reported, attributing much of the growth to militia groups.
    and...

    State police agencies polled by START researchers in 2008 overwhelmingly reported the presence of potentially dangerous extremist groups across the political spectrum, with nearly 90% saying neo-Nazi, skinhead, militia groups and other right-wing groups were present in their state. About two-thirds reported radical Islamic groups.
    So, when a citizen of this country joins a militia, something specifically addressed in the Constitution, they can now be lumped in with neo-fascists and skinheads as domestic terrorists?

    But the threat from Islamic terrorism tends to get the lion's share of media coverage, not to mention law enforcement attention, Ackerman of START said.

    Ackerman said nationally, law enforcement has been focused since the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon in 2001 on the threat of Islamic terrorism, even as the threat from domestic anti-government groups has been growing.
    Furthermore, not agreeing with this current government apparently makes one as dangerous as a radical Jihadist.




    Far right domestic terrorism on par with foreign threat, experts say - CNN.com
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Re: Far right domestic terrorism on par with foreign threat, experts say

    It will probably always be the case that a given incident of terrorism is at least as likely to occur from within than without. In fact, normally I would say that would overwhelmingly be the case for most countries. The fact that Islamic terrorism is a high probability anywhere near the level of threat of domestic terrorism speaks volumes.

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    Re: Far right domestic terrorism on par with foreign threat, experts say

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Let me process this for a moment...

    It's become a common trend to argue that in order to exercise a right provided to the people by the Second Amendment, one must be part of a militia. However, we now find out...



    and...



    So, when a citizen of this country joins a militia, something specifically addressed in the Constitution, they can now be lumped in with neo-fascists and skinheads as domestic terrorists?



    Furthermore, not agreeing with this current government apparently makes one as dangerous as a radical Jihadist.




    Far right domestic terrorism on par with foreign threat, experts say - CNN.com
    i really don't know where anyone has claimed that not agreeing with the government makes one as dangerous as a radical jihadist. and yes, militias can be lumped in with neo-fascists. The Militia Movement -- Extremism in America

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Far right domestic terrorism on par with foreign threat, experts say

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    i really don't know where anyone has claimed that not agreeing with the government makes one as dangerous as a radical jihadist. and yes, militias can be lumped in with neo-fascists. The Militia Movement -- Extremism in America
    How so? How is it extremist to engage in a something that was specifically intended to be an integral part of this country? Doesn't the Constitution not only make allowances for, but practically encourage the formation of militias to ensure the common welfare of the citizenry? If you mean that a militia could be seen as a threat to a government, then yes, that's kind of the point, but is the militia in any way a threat to the country?
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Re: Far right domestic terrorism on par with foreign threat, experts say

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    So, when a citizen of this country joins a militia, something specifically addressed in the Constitution, they can now be lumped in with neo-fascists and skinheads as domestic terrorists?







    It isn't necessarily the joining of a militia that makes one a neo-fascist or terrorist, but the politics and objectives of said militia.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Far right domestic terrorism on par with foreign threat, experts say

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    How so? How is it extremist to engage in a something that was specifically intended to be an integral part of this country? Doesn't the Constitution not only make allowances for, but practically encourage the formation of militias to ensure the common welfare of the citizenry? If you mean that a militia could be seen as a threat to a government, then yes, that's kind of the point, but is the militia in any way a threat to the country?
    our "militia" is our armed services. there is no doubt that the militias around the country DO NOT have the welfare of the people at the forefront of their mission. of course militias are a threat to our country. it's really that simple, anytime you have a bunch of ****ing miscreants running around with guns, illegally in a lot of cases, bad stuff is bound to occur. militias are just like street gangs, but better armed.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    our "militia" is our armed services. there is no doubt that the militias around the country DO NOT have the welfare of the people at the forefront of their mission. of course militias are a threat to our country. it's really that simple, anytime you have a bunch of ****ing miscreants running around with guns, illegally in a lot of cases, bad stuff is bound to occur. militias are just like street gangs, but better armed.
    I know someone that has read the MIAC and/ or other similar reports.

    No, militias are not like "street gangs", though I don't doubt there's that feeling of community. It was the intention that every individual be trained in the use of weapons so that each individual can be called upon for civil defense.

    Now, in a sense I can understand your concerns, but this one is not simple enough to make hose kinds of blanket statements...

    In many places, cops act very much like street gangs as well, how dangerous do you perceive cops in that sense?? (this is also a blanket statement, if you're a good cop and honor the oath I respect you and the difficulty of your job... Corrupt cops on the other hand.)

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    Re: Far right domestic terrorism on par with foreign threat, experts say

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    our "militia" is our armed services. there is no doubt that the militias around the country DO NOT have the welfare of the people at the forefront of their mission. of course militias are a threat to our country. it's really that simple, anytime you have a bunch of ****ing miscreants running around with guns, illegally in a lot of cases, bad stuff is bound to occur. militias are just like street gangs, but better armed.

    There is a vast difference between a citizen militia as described in the Constitution and a standing army. You appear to be addressing this issue with a lot of hyperbole, liblady, and I expect better from you. People who wish to bear arms in defense of themselves and others are "miscreants?" Also, can you please cite statistics tying state militia groups to ownership of illegal firearms?
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Re: Far right domestic terrorism on par with foreign threat, experts say

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    There is a vast difference between a citizen militia as described in the Constitution and a standing army. You appear to be addressing this issue with a lot of hyperbole, liblady, and I expect better from you. People who wish to bear arms in defense of themselves and others are "miscreants?" Also, can you please cite statistics tying state militia groups to ownership of illegal firearms?
    By early 1996, virtually every state had at least one group, and most states had several. The movement had attracted the attention not only of the media but also of law enforcement, however, which had begun to discover signs of significant criminal activity. As early as 1994, members of the Blue Ridge Hunt Club, a nascent Virginia militia group, had been arrested on a variety of weapons charges. The following year an Oklahoma Christian Identity minister and militia leader, Ray Lampley, was arrested along with several followers for conspiring to blow up targets ranging from government buildings to the offices of civil rights organizations. But in 1996, a series of investigations resulted in a number of major militia-related arrests, generally on illegal weapons, explosives and conspiracy charges. In April 1996, several members of the Georgia Republic Militia were arrested, followed in July by a dozen members of the Arizona Viper Militia. Later that same month, members of the Washington State Militia found themselves in custody, while in October members of the West Virginia Mountaineer Militia were arres-ted on weapons charges and in connection with plans to blow up an F.B.I. fingerprinting facility. These arrests, not surprisingly, had a depressing effect on the movement.

    Other events in 1996 and 1997 also served to weaken the movement. The most ambitious attempt to network militia groups together, the Tri-States Militia, collapsed in 1996 when it was revealed that its leader had been accepting money from the F.B.I. In March 1996, the F.B.I. surrounded the Montana Freemen, a sovereign citizen group, in remote eastern Montana, then arrested them following an 81-day standoff. Although a few militia members traveled to Montana to support (or aid) the Freemen, by and large the movement failed to respond, a fact that embittered some of the more radical members. (This scenario would be repeated the following spring when the militia failed to come to the rescue of the besieged Republic of Texas near Fort Davis, Texas.) Lack of response on the part of the militia movement caused a number of radical members to splinter away at the same time that some of the less hard-core members were leaving because of the increased arrests. By the fall of 1996, the movement had clearly faltered, and several prominent early leaders dropped out, including Idaho militia leader Samuel Sherwood; he disbanded his group in September, complaining that "the whole movement is being distorted on one side by the press and the media and taken over by the nuts and the crazies on the other."

    Some militia activists attempted to buck the tide by establishing militia umbrella groups, most of which lasted only a few years. More radical members eschewed elaborate militia organizations and attempted to go it on their own. In Michigan, a group of militia members, allegedly kicked out of the Michigan Militia for being too radical, formed a group first called the "Goof Troop," then, with more dignity, the North American Militia. Members planned to bomb a large number of targets in Michigan, including a federal building and an I.R.S. building; they constructed a variety of pipe bombs and even discussed assassinating various government officials. By 1998, five members of the group had been arrested and convicted on multiple charges; leaders Brad Metcalf and Randy Graham received 40- and 55-year sentences, respectively. In Missouri, a group of extremists from several different states, led by Bradley Glover of Kansas, met at a gathering of the "Third Continental Congress," but decided that this umbrella group was not radical enough for them. They struck out on their own, planning to attack United States military bases that they suspected were training New World Order troops. Members were so committed that they sold their businesses and homes in order to have plenty of money and be completely mobile. The first planned attack would occur against Fort Hood, Texas, on July 4, 1997 -- the day that the military base hosts an annual "Freedom Festival" attended by 50,000 men, women and children. Luckily, good police work on the part of the Missouri State Highway Patrol and the F.B.I. detected the plans and prevented a tragedy; Glover and a companion were arrested on July 4 at a campground near Fort Hood. Eventually seven people were arrested in connection with the group.
    is this enough?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Far right domestic terrorism on par with foreign threat, experts say

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    is this enough?
    Not really. How about some actual links to statistics instead of reposting the same ADL page? That lists perhaps a few dozen arrests since 1993 from the thousands of people who may claim to indentify themselves as citizen militia members. Frankly, there are more police officers brought up on charges each year than the militia members you provided there.

    Like I said, I expect more than hyperbole from you.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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