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Thread: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 76

  1. #61
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    Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    No. That would be stupid.

    See, execution is not reversible. Prison is. If you are later discovered to be innocent, you can be released and compensated for your wrongful imprisonment. Until we figure out resurrection technology, the same cannot be said of the death penalty.

    But I'm sure you already knew all that. You did read the conversation that lead to my statement, right?
    If someone dies in prison, that's purdy damn irreversable.

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    Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    People have been locked up for life, for crimes they didn't commit. Are we going to stop putting people in jail?
    No, of course not. But one cannot seriously suggest that ending the death penalty due to the fact that the use of it will catch innocent people and those people will be put to death is comparable in any way to a total lack of prison punishments for significant crimes. People have been put into jail for crimes they haven't committed, people have been executed for crimes they hadn't committed. If you are innocent of charges and in jail, if you are not killed you have time to appeal and be heard again and try to prove innocence as new information becomes present. If the State kills you, you're dead. You don't get that luxury. The death penalty in general is something that we don't quite need still and given its failure points, it seems more prudent to end the usage of it. Or reform it at least to the likes of Colorado. Here to get a DP verdict, you have to have more proof than is necessary for a mere guilty verdict. The burden of proof is much much higher if the State seeks the death penalty. As a result, we have only a couple folk on our death row (3 or so), and they've all been guilty of the crimes they committed and the State was able to uphold the higher burden of proof and demonstrate it. In this case, you still get to have the DP for very bad crimes, but it won't be used a lot, and when it is the burden of proof is so high that you gaurantee that a conviction means that the person really did it.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The point of the death penalty is to serve as the ultimate punishment a criminal can receive. The reason the death penalty does not act as a deterrent is because of the fact it takes 10-20 years to execute someone.Scumbag sympathizers do not give two ****s about the victims in their minds its not guilty until proven innocent. To them its innocents even after proven guilty.

    If they immediately executed those who received the death penalty it would serve as a deterrent. Do you think prison would serve as a deterrent if it took 10-20 years after a guilty conviction before they finally went to prison?
    And how many MORE innocent people would be executed than already are?
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    Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Don't they get appeals and what happened to innocent UNTIL proven guilty?
    When some states don't ensure that defendants don't get their full rights, prosecutorial misconduct, police cover ups, etc. and yes, innocent people DO get executed. I am not anti-death penalty, but there are certainly problems in the way it is used.
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    Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Murder is a legal term. The state accidentally killing an innocent man is not murder.
    Not if there is willful misconduct.
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    Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Well, when you find a solution to this that is 100%, you be sure and start a thread about. K?

    The only problem I have with the death penalty, is that it's not used enough.

    Look at the crime rate in Mexico. They don't have a death penalty and drug crime is out of control.
    Guilt can be determined beyond a reasonble doubt, but the standard for the death penalty should be MUCH higher... beyond ALL doubt...
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  7. #67
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    Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    No I didnt
    Then the only other alternative is that you didn't understand what I said. So i'll rephrase it and try again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Monetary compensation can be paid by the state to protect its employees directly to the person wrongly held
    Only if the person is alive. If not the the compensation would go to family. What do you think happens if an innocent dies while in prison without the DP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    A dead person can not be compensated
    But his/her family can.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    and as he was murdered by the state and entirely different level of punishement is called for then just being wrongly held. Eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. A death for a death. Meaning those involved in wrongly ending a persons life should have thier life ended as well. Proper compensation, and a deterent to killing people unless absolutely certain they are guiltly
    This is not the bibilical ages. We no longer have an "eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a death for a death". If we did then EVERYONE that killed someone else...be it an accident or not would also be put to death.

    Now for the rephrasing. What do you think would happen if we made those responsible for putting someone on the DP list responsible if they are later found innocent after having already been put to death? A few things...

    1: Such a thing would have to be applied equally across the board. This includes cases that involve theft, vandalism, arson and every other single thing that is on the law books. And don't try to say that it wouldn't because that is exactly what our system is based upon. Equality in the eyes of the law.

    2: The jury is not going to want to convict despite any evidence. Normal people would not want to risk going to prison or being fined as some sort of restitution towards someone that was later found to be innocent. People instinctively protect thier own hides. That is just nature.

    3: No one will want to be on a jury panel. For the same reasons that I gave in my number 2 point.

    2: No one will want to be the arresting cop. For the same reasons that I gave in my number 2 point.

    4: No one will want to be a judge that presides over someone that might later be found innocent. For the same reasons that I gave in my number 2 point.

    5: No one will want to be a prosecutor. For the same reasons that I gave in my number 2 point.

    So basically because of your "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" mentality you have just seriously gimped...if not destroyed our entire justice system and let thousands of criminals back out onto the street single handedly. Our system is gimped enough due to humans not being perfect creatures and always making mistakes. We certainly don't need something that will hinder an actual criminal being convicted and sentenced to such a point as to make our justice system totally worthless.
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  8. #68
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    Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Then the only other alternative is that you didn't understand what I said. So i'll rephrase it and try again.



    Only if the person is alive. If not the the compensation would go to family. What do you think happens if an innocent dies while in prison without the DP?



    But his/her family can.



    This is not the bibilical ages. We no longer have an "eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a death for a death". If we did then EVERYONE that killed someone else...be it an accident or not would also be put to death.

    Now for the rephrasing. What do you think would happen if we made those responsible for putting someone on the DP list responsible if they are later found innocent after having already been put to death? A few things...

    1: Such a thing would have to be applied equally across the board. This includes cases that involve theft, vandalism, arson and every other single thing that is on the law books. And don't try to say that it wouldn't because that is exactly what our system is based upon. Equality in the eyes of the law.

    2: The jury is not going to want to convict despite any evidence. Normal people would not want to risk going to prison or being fined as some sort of restitution towards someone that was later found to be innocent. People instinctively protect thier own hides. That is just nature.

    3: No one will want to be on a jury panel. For the same reasons that I gave in my number 2 point.

    2: No one will want to be the arresting cop. For the same reasons that I gave in my number 2 point.

    4: No one will want to be a judge that presides over someone that might later be found innocent. For the same reasons that I gave in my number 2 point.

    5: No one will want to be a prosecutor. For the same reasons that I gave in my number 2 point.

    So basically because of your "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" mentality you have just seriously gimped...if not destroyed our entire justice system and let thousands of criminals back out onto the street single handedly. Our system is gimped enough due to humans not being perfect creatures and always making mistakes. We certainly don't need something that will hinder an actual criminal being convicted and sentenced to such a point as to make our justice system totally worthless.
    you just pointed out the problem with the death penalty. The justice system is not perfect and the ability to reverse any decision is vital for a truly just outcome
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  9. #69
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    Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

    While I and many others may not agree with Norway's justice system, I think it's absurd to call them trash or criminal sympathizers simply because they don't have the same justice system there that we have in the US. Not all cultures are alike. It's a fact of life.

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    Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    While I and many others may not agree with Norway's justice system, I think it's absurd to call them trash or criminal sympathizers simply because they don't have the same justice system there that we have in the US. Not all cultures are alike. It's a fact of life.
    Norway is an open, pluristic, democratic society. They have the right to order their society as they see fit. If they wish to not have the death penalty, that is their choice. Being from a state that has it, but has found little need for it, I can appreciate living in an environment where its use would not truly be necessary.
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