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Thread: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 76

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    Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    My point is that you are wrong that such punishments keep crime down. The states that have a death penalty actually have, on average, the highest rates of violent crime and homocide.

    They have a governmental culture of killing. Therefore, the people also have a culture of killing. Your blind vengence is part of the reason for that.

    Some of the more extreme criminals do in fact want to be killed. And when you add up the average cost of appeals, the execution itself, etc, it's far more expensive that sticking them in jail forever.

    There is simply no advantage to it. And it's the mark of an uncivilized and erroneous sense of justice.
    Got any stats to show this to be true?
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    Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    For the love of god....the miss information is ripe over on the other side of the pond.

    Maximum sentence is 21 years yes.

    However there is Forvaring. This is a statute that states, if the criminal is a threat to society after his sentence then he/she can be put in "forvaring" (jail type scenario) form 10 to 21 years and then after that it can be extended every 5 years. This means he can be held for life.
    Forvaring...thats a new word to me. Thanks Pete.
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    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 07-26-11 at 05:46 AM.

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    Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

    According to the following site the highest firearms death rate starts out in Washington DC, which has no DP. The next highest is in Alaska, which also has no DP. The next highest is Louisiana which does have the DP. Texas which is known for its liberal use of the death penalty is ranked 26.

    On the flip side Hawaii is ranked 51, has no DP. Rank 50 is held by Massachusettes which still has the DP on the law books but it has been ruled unconstitutional. Rank 49 is held by Conneticut which still has the DP.

    So not sure where you're getting your correlation from.

    Firearms Death rate per 100,000

    Capitol Punishment in the US ~ your friendly neighborhood wiki link

    Edit: was writing and posting this before I saw your last post...am looking at it.
    Last edited by Kal'Stang; 07-26-11 at 05:57 AM.
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    Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    According to the following site the highest firearms death rate starts out in Washington DC, which has no DP. The next highest is in Alaska, which also has no DP. The next highest is Louisiana which does have the DP. Texas which is known for its liberal use of the death penalty is ranked 26.

    On the flip side Hawaii is ranked 51, has no DP. Rank 50 is held by Massachusettes which still has the DP on the law books but it has been ruled unconstitutional. Rank 49 is held by Conneticut which still has the DP.

    So not sure where you're getting your correlation from.

    Firearms Death rate per 100,000

    Capitol Punishment in the US ~ your friendly neighborhood wiki link

    Edit: was writing and posting this before I saw your last post...am looking at it.
    The correlation is general - not perfect. And obviously other factors may change the statistics in a given state. However, when you average it out, death penalty states do indeed have higher homicide rates on average.

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    Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    The correlation is general - not perfect. And obviously other factors may change the statistics in a given state. However, when you average it out, death penalty states do indeed have higher homicide rates on average.
    I would say this is a case of correlation does not equal causation. However, it does kind of blow the idea that the DP reduces crime out of the water.
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    Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    I would say this is a case of correlation does not equal causation. However, it does kind of blow the idea that the DP reduces crime out of the water.
    Quite possibly. I mean, having lived in DC it is plain as day to me why their homicide rate is so high, with or without the death penalty. I have never been anywhere in the developed world that had greater social inequality. The poorest people I have ever seen in the developed world were in Washington DC. I think it's probably as simple as that.

    However, I have read about spikes in crime following executions. I will see if I can re-find that...

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    Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    My point is that you are wrong that such punishments keep crime down. The states that have a death penalty actually have, on average, the highest rates of violent crime and homocide.

    They have a governmental culture of killing. Therefore, the people also have a culture of killing. Your blind vengeance is part of the reason for that.

    Some of the more extreme criminals do in fact want to be killed. And when you add up the average cost of appeals, the execution itself, etc, it's far more expensive that sticking them in jail forever.

    There is simply no advantage to it. And it's the mark of an uncivilized and erroneous sense of justice.
    My point is we don't have punishment that matches the crimes. Putting a mass murderer to sleep with an injection is no deterrent. If I have blind vengeance you have total blindness to reality and what I said. I don't favor namby pamby wimpy injections because they don't work and it takes too long to get that point because Liberals don't give a damn reality they want to be touchy feely.

    We have more crime because of the open society we have an almost total lack of morals by some along with people screaming about tolerance when we should be saying enough is enough.

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    Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    My point is we don't have punishment that matches the crimes. Putting a mass murderer to sleep with an injection is no deterrent. If I have blind vengeance you have total blindness to reality and what I said. I don't favor namby pamby wimpy injections because they don't work and it takes too long to get that point because Liberals don't give a damn reality they want to be touchy feely.

    We have more crime because of the open society we have an almost total lack of morals by some along with people screaming about tolerance when we should be saying enough is enough.
    Oh really? Then why is it crime in general is lower in more progressive socities? Why is that countries that use painful or humilitating punishments have such tremendously high crime?

    In terms of morals, the developed world is doing better than any other socieites ever have at any other point in history. Your argument is simply not based in reality.

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    Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    My point is that you are wrong that such punishments keep crime down. The states that have a death penalty actually have, on average, the highest rates of violent crime and homocide.
    HIghly misleading. First off, I am against the death penalty but there is only one reason why we should abolish it. Nobody has a right to take the life of another that isn't threatening your life.

    The numbers you reference include states with higher homicide rates that while technically still has the death penalty on the books, they never use it. As a better example. Texas is most likely the best example for a state that uses it. It's homicide rate is 5.9. Michigan doesn't have the death penalty and it's rate is 6.7. California has it but doesn't use it, it's rate of 6.2 is included in the death penalty column.

    They have a governmental culture of killing. Therefore, the people also have a culture of killing. Your blind vengence is part of the reason for that.
    How does this explain D.C.'s rate of 30? (far and away the highest in the country)

    {edit} I see where you try and pass this off as inequality but they are killing each other. How does it make sense to kill those in the same boat as yourself?
    Last edited by 1Perry; 07-26-11 at 06:30 AM.

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