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Thread: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    Leftwing Wife: Our bills are more than we make in pay and we owe people money. Let's pay the bills with our credit card. Then we'll work on cutting our expenses and we'll ask your brother who has been living with us, but who hasn't helped out with the light bill in 10 years, to start helping out with the light bill again.

    Rightwing Husband: No. Let's not pay our bills, have our credit rating ruined, default on our mortgage, and then all three of us can be on the street.

    Leftwing Wife:
    This would only be accurate in the sense that the rich have not been paying any taxes. But to correct this it would better read "Lets have your brother who is already paying 60% of the bills give even more of his money to us since we apparently know how to handle his money better than he does."

    Have you ever heard of Dave Ramsey? If you handle money properly you won't need those credit cards and the only important bills are the roof over your heard, food on the table and gas in the tank to go to work. Everything else can wait or be prioritzed as needed.

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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I have no idea how you got from there to here without doing the same for some of the other "dialogues". But you did ask a good question



    For one thing, it's not about me. I have enough money of my own.

    IMO, the wealth of this nation is more than the sum total of individuals efforts. Our history is full of instances where the american people worked together to build our prosperity. The poor, the middle, and even the wealthy, came together and made the sacrifices necessary to avoid disaster and build a future for their children.

    IMO, we should adhere to this tradition of shared sacrifice.

    And WRT to the question about FIT, I have already responded to that over and over again. If you want to focus on that to the exclusion of all else, go ahead. I will continue to talk about regressive nature of capital gains, payroll taxes, subsidies to corporations, and tax reductions for a wealth of things that are not available to the middle class.
    How are capital gains and payroll taxes regressive? They are flat taxes which are not regressive because everyone pays the same amount. Sales taxes are regressive.

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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by muskrat1973 View Post
    How are capital gains and payroll taxes regressive? They are flat taxes which are not regressive because everyone pays the same amount. Sales taxes are regressive.
    Flat taxes are regressive by definition
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    whining about that is pointless. there are many things that can give you an advantage in life
    more attractive women marry richer men than ugly ones. better atheletes get scholarships to college
    more intelligent kids get better grades
    your lot in life is not my fault and I have no duty to make a sacrifice to make others feel better
    Actually, you do have a duty, and our govt has the power to tax you in order to accomplish that. I know it really tics some people off, but too bad on them.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    whining about that is pointless. there are many things that can give you an advantage in life
    more attractive women marry richer men than ugly ones. better atheletes get scholarships to college
    more intelligent kids get better grades
    your lot in life is not my fault and I have no duty to make a sacrifice to make others feel better
    I'm quite happy with my lot in life, thanks very much. I was fortunate enough to have all the advantages I mentioned. But I am at least realist enough to admit that I had those advantages, and I don't feel the need to belittle those who weren't so lucky. In fact I think society has a role to play in helping out those who didn't win the genetic lottery.

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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Actually, you do have a duty, and our govt has the power to tax you in order to accomplish that. I know it really tics some people off, but too bad on them.
    Government taking money from an individual in order to make others feel better stops becoming the responsibility of the taxed and the assumed responsibility of the government. The individual, by the government usurping his rights, no longer has any say in where the money goes.

    The government, in deciding who to 'help', can then decide, always with rationalization, where they can get the best political return with this money in order to gain reelection and maintain power. We should all know that by now.

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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I'm quite happy with my lot in life, thanks very much. I was fortunate enough to have all the advantages I mentioned. But I am at least realist enough to admit that I had those advantages, and I don't feel the need to belittle those who weren't so lucky. In fact I think society has a role to play in helping out those who didn't win the genetic lottery.
    Do you realize that the "clueless" are included in those you consider not being "so lucky?" Interesting how liberals ignore those people or the others who abuse the taxpayer and can work but choose not to? Why aren't those people removed from taxpayer assistance. Instead liberals have to make the number as big as possible so they can gain the maximum power and control. Wonder why people like you don't see what is happening to our country? Nothing wrong with spending in the name of compassion but not getting compassion results meaning solving a problem is the real problem.

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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Government taking money from an individual in order to make others feel better stops becoming the responsibility of the taxed and the assumed responsibility of the government. The individual, by the government usurping his rights, no longer has any say in where the money goes.

    The government, in deciding who to 'help', can then decide, always with rationalization, where they can get the best political return with this money in order to gain reelection and maintain power. We should all know that by now.
    The govt has the power to tax people, not to make some feel better, but to promote the general welfare. The govt gets this power from the people, who have delegated this power to the govt. You can distort the justification of this power as being a feel-good policy, but that does not change the facts in any way.

    And if the people support politicians who uses this power to gain re-election by doing what the people want, then that is a feature of democracy, not a bug.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Do you realize that the "clueless" are included in those you consider not being "so lucky?" Interesting how liberals ignore those people or the others who abuse the taxpayer and can work but choose not to? Why aren't those people removed from taxpayer assistance. Instead liberals have to make the number as big as possible so they can gain the maximum power and control. Wonder why people like you don't see what is happening to our country? Nothing wrong with spending in the name of compassion but not getting compassion results meaning solving a problem is the real problem.
    Yes, I understand that any public assistance program is going to be vulnerable to some amount of abuse. Fortunately, President Clinton's welfare reform improved the situation to a degree. Apparently he didn't get the message that he was supposed to grow the permanent under class.

    I think there is still much that can be done to cut down on abuse and to help people become independent, but the answer is not to simply let people who are down on their luck rot, as so many conservatives seem to desire.

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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Yes, I understand that any public assistance program is going to be vulnerable to some amount of abuse. Fortunately, President Clinton's welfare reform improved the situation to a degree. Apparently he didn't get the message that he was supposed to grow the permanent under class.

    I think there is still much that can be done to cut down on abuse and to help people become independent, but the answer is not to simply let people who are down on their luck rot, as so many conservatives seem to desire.
    Just goes to show once again that the Federal Govt. should never be in the business of social engineering and the responsibility for helping the people belongs at the state and local levels. We wouldn't be in this mess today if it weren't for meddling politicians who continue to see an opportunity to keep their power and their jobs.

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