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Thread: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

  1. #111
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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post

    You seem to be under the impression that I want to rebut his points and therefore I'm calling them talking points, but in order to rebut something, someone actually has to present an argument. Neither one of the douchebages who spoke tonight presented an argument. Neither actually stated a singel reason why their plan was actually the better one (They'd have to go into detail about the plans to do that, and that's a big "no no" iin a soundbite society).

    Both of those transcripts can be translated as "the other guys are bad, mmmkay? They have bad ideas, Mmmmkay? Our ideas are gooder than their ideas, mmmkay? It;s all their faults if things go to ****."

    I call the mindles drivel served up by both of these douchebags "talking points" because neither presented an argument for why their proposal was the better and more necessary one. They simply claimed theirs was better and left it at that. If they would ever say something substatiative, I'd certainly love to try to form a rebuttal, but that's not what these things are designed for.

    Both speeches do nothing other than appeal to those who already agree with them. Also known as: pandering.
    Tonight's speeches were all about blaming "the other guy" to lay the ground work for excuses for when the **** hits the fan next week. Republicans of late have been the party of "no." Now we will learn if that's the sort of government America wants.


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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    Another Dems good, Repubs bad speech. I can't wait to watch, not.
    That about summed it up. I do think there was a hint of "vote for us not them" in there as well though.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Boehner's going to single-handedly vote them all out?
    No, the Chamber of Commerce will

    GOP Civil War Erupts: Tea Party Freshman Rips Chamber CEO Tom Donahue | ThinkProgress

    But Donohue sent a message those freshman during a speech before the Rotary Club of Atlanta: Fail to raise the debt ceiling and “we’ll get rid of you.”
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Tonight's speeches were all about blaming "the other guy" to lay the ground work for excuses for when the **** hits the fan next week. Republicans of late have been the party of "no." Now we will learn if that's the sort of government America wants.

    I can't wait for the next election. Big changes need to be made.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

  5. #115
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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    That about summed it up. I do think there was a hint of "vote for us not them" in there as well though.
    But that wasn't what he said. Obama praised the repubs who have been willing to negotiate, will criticizing those who are earning the repubs a reputation as "the party of no"
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I would argue:

    1) The rich have benefited from government spending and government policy too. It's not just people getting welfare checks. To take the extreme example, how vastly has the CEO of FedEx benefited from having a lavish highway and aviation infrastructure in this country? How much does a business benefit from having those same roads to transport customers and employees from longer distances to the place of business? How about various contractors given taxpayer dollars to perform various tasks? Nobody works in a vacuum, nobody is ever successful entirely on their own. Before the slippery slope nonsense crops up (not necessarily from you, but someone would) no, this does not mean I support COMMUNISM or 99.999% tax rates. A rich person benefits to a greater degree from government spending and gets a greater marginal utility out of their dollar, so I don't see a problem with progressive taxation in principle.
    Call is slippery slope if you like, but it makes sense that, if you believe raising taxes on the so called rich is the only right and moral thing to do then the you must also believe that the higher the taxation, the more moral and right it is, especially since I've never seen someone who advocates for taxing the rich express how much, they think, would finally be enough.

    Also, you're speaking of corporations as if they don't contribute anything (like jobs and taxes) or provide any service. You also ignore the reality that anyone starting a business also runs the risk of having it fail spectacularly. The only reason to incur such risk is the potential for great reward. I know how distasteful the word "profit" is to some, but many people, rich and poor, benefit from the things brought about because of a motive to make money.

    2) Given 1, it's a matter of priorities. We've all been taking the benefit of spending that was in excess of revenue. Rich and poor alike, we've all gotten an artificial boost through the government spending money it didn't have. Therefore, we should all have at least some sacrifice, and to demand that ALL of the sacrifice comes from those least able to afford it is just downright wrong.
    I don't disagree that everyone should pay. The rich are paying and fully about half of the population is supported by the other half. Tell me how the so called poor (folks in other countries would just love the standard of living our poor have) are paying when they somehow get a tax refund on taxes they never had to pay. I'd really be interested in knowing how much "soaking the rich" would be enough for you.
    Last edited by X Factor; 07-26-11 at 01:03 AM.
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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    That may be, but I believe it was jmac who said to me in a post today that this country is rich not because of our profits, but because our land has an abundance of natural resources. If that is the case, doesn't a business use natural resources in order to construct the facilities that house that business? Does in some cases it takes turning some of those natural resources into a good or an object to present that service to the marketplace? A bulding or facility is constructed from cement, brick, concrete or steel. Goods are made of wood, glass, steel or aluminum, grains and an assortment of other minerals or food source from the soil. Services require the use of paper which is a wood product same as several desks in many buildings and facilities across the country. Why shouldn't a corporation pay a tax if for no other reason than using the abundance of the country's natural resources?

    But beyond that, as I stated earlier, the Supreme Court has declared a corporation as an individual. If I, as an individual, am required to pay taxes, so should a corporation. Unless you want to start claiming that said corporation - that individual where "money [profits] passes through that conduit to that owner" - is an illegal alien. Now, you've really got problems, don't you? (That last part was sarcasm, but it should show just how ridiculous TurtleDude's comment was, not to mention just how problematic the Citizen's United case truly is.)

    If a corporation pays taxes it should have complete representation as well

    meaning it should be able to vote in the jurisdictions where its located

    just saying..........



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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post

    Both speeches do nothing other than appeal to those who already agree with them. Also known as: pandering.
    Tiny, tiny disagreement with you. I think pandering is telling people what they want to hear, whether the speaker actually agrees with it or not, in order to gain something.
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  9. #119
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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by TBone View Post
    Yeah, GOP are totally right in giving the Oil Companies substudies (sic) and tax breaks, and making those who work pay the full bill. Yeah, the TP should not compromise on anything, they should not budge because we know they are never wrong. NOT
    Never said that. So you saying the dems are always correct? My stance is both sides are playing politics and are failing to do the job they were elected to do. So my saying it was another repub bad, dems good speech turned out to be true, did it not?
    Last edited by mike2810; 07-26-11 at 01:10 AM.
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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    You seem to be under the impression that I want to rebut his points and therefore I'm calling them talking points, but in order to rebut something, someone actually has to present an argument. Neither one of the douchebages who spoke tonight presented an argument. Neither actually stated a singel reason why their plan was actually the better one (They'd have to go into detail about the plans to do that, and that's a big "no no" iin a soundbite society).

    Both of those transcripts can be translated as "the other guys are bad, mmmkay? They have bad ideas, Mmmmkay? Our ideas are gooder than their ideas, mmmkay? It;s all their faults if things go to ****."

    I call the mindles drivel served up by both of these douchebags "talking points" because neither presented an argument for why their proposal was the better and more necessary one. They simply claimed theirs was better and left it at that. If they would ever say something substatiative, I'd certainly love to try to form a rebuttal, but that's not what these things are designed for.

    Both speeches do nothing other than appeal to those who already agree with them. Also known as: pandering.
    These were not policy speeches for the wonks, no. You're right. The wonks know the plans and the score.

    This was a political speech by the president, who needs badly to at least look like he's in charge. He climbed into the bully pulpit, quoted Reagan, explained the business as usual vote on the debt ceiling, and told us to call our Congressman. That's his privilege, just as it is Boehner's - who would not have otherwise spoken tonight - to counter.

    Pandering? Yeah, but we can still grade them on honesty and effectiveness.

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