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Thread: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

  1. #101
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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I don't speak for the Tea Party patriots and I am not expert on all their proposals but taxes should not be raised on anyone-especially those who pay too much of the burden as it is until massive painful cuts are passed to prove to us that the government is dealing in good faith

    TRUE compromise would not involve tax hikes but rather each party suffering some cuts that they do not want

    If I were Dictator, unconstitutional crap like the Department of Education would be gone in a heartbeat. so would some of the massive overseas nonsense that is not needed.

    we don't need a ton of military in Germany now that the Warsaw Pact is pretty well toast

    we spend way too much money on idiotic studies that serve no useful function such as studying the penis sizes of gay men or the mating habits of some creatures that are neither beneficial to us or a pest

    Some military cuts are in order as well now that the Soviet Union is not the threat it once was (that does not mean cutting off your pension which seems to be your main issue)

    most welfare functions are a state function and have the benefit of checks and balances meaning if some state is too generous with the taxpayers' coin, those taxpayers move to a friendlier state.

    the war on drugs at a federal level again is clearly an unconstitutional function and demonstrates that the history of the prohibition era was forgotten. If a state wants to ban dope of blow that is a state power. If a state wants to allow blow or dope that is a state power as well

    I know a lot about our justice system and how much it costs to say incarcerate someone for 250 months at USP florence or FCI Ashland. like 40-65K a year. do the math
    You are beginning to make sense. I don't totally agree, but I don't disagree on much of what you've listed above.










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  2. #102
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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    money had nothing to do with it

    I grew up with Rob Portman. He called my dad "Uncle" as I called his father. His late mother, dying of cancer, threw an engagement party for my wife and I. We didn't know she was dying. The second time my wife and I attended a service in the cathedral where we were wed was for his mother's funeral. My dad was a close friend of Steve Chabot and ran a campaign for him many years ago for a minor office. Steve came in quietly to my dad's funeral. when one major league republican asked him about some political bit Steve said "not the time or the place, I am here as a friend of the man not as a politician"
    I stand corrected.

    But you do have to admit that the way you described the reason boehner not getting back to you: "Boehner, probably not. He doesn't know me nor was I one of his big contributors though other members of my family were." gives the appearance that money was the deciding factor, here.

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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Let's be perfectly honest and summarize both speeches:

    Obama: Boehner and the Tea Party sittin' in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G.

    Boehner: I'm rubber and you're glue, anything you say bounces off of me and sticks to you.
    I believe that at this point Boehner can't stand the Teabaggers. I think next election, there won't be so many left in congress

    http://www.pollingreport.com/cong_rep.htm

    republicans have a 65% disapproval rating right now.
    Last edited by sangha; 07-26-11 at 12:25 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  4. #104
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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    Because you are cutting the current tax revenue meaning they are losing money. Hence why it is considered a cost.
    But a cost would be something you spend money on. If I told my friend to buy me a car, it would be silly to say he cost me $30,000 when he refuses.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    because they are merely a conduit to transfer money to their owners

    there should be no double taxation on corporate profits
    That may be, but I believe it was jmac who said to me in a post today that this country is rich not because of our profits, but because our land has an abundance of natural resources. If that is the case, doesn't a business use natural resources in order to construct the facilities that house that business? Does in some cases it takes turning some of those natural resources into a good or an object to present that service to the marketplace? A bulding or facility is constructed from cement, brick, concrete or steel. Goods are made of wood, glass, steel or aluminum, grains and an assortment of other minerals or food source from the soil. Services require the use of paper which is a wood product same as several desks in many buildings and facilities across the country. Why shouldn't a corporation pay a tax if for no other reason than using the abundance of the country's natural resources?

    But beyond that, as I stated earlier, the Supreme Court has declared a corporation as an individual. If I, as an individual, am required to pay taxes, so should a corporation. Unless you want to start claiming that said corporation - that individual where "money [profits] passes through that conduit to that owner" - is an illegal alien. Now, you've really got problems, don't you? (That last part was sarcasm, but it should show just how ridiculous TurtleDude's comment was, not to mention just how problematic the Citizen's United case truly is.)
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 07-26-11 at 12:44 AM.

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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I haven't seen either speech but this post is a little ironic given how many on the left (not saying you, I don't know), resent failing to raise taxes on people as if the money they wouldn't have to pay somehow just belongs to...uh...society, I guess.
    I'm truly Independent. It depends on the issue. I didn't vote for Obama and I doubt that I will in 2012.

    In my opinion we damn near need to wipe the slate clean and start over. We should stop the practice of earmarks and we could do without some the of government that we have now. The tax structure is unjust. By the same token no one can deny the massive gap between the haves and the have nots in the U.S. The wars have to stop. We cannot afford them. Period.

    Much could be done, but both ruling parties dance to the tune Big Money plays. Do you honestly think Joe and Jane Sixpack are getting or will get fair representation in Washington? Of course not.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  7. #107
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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Looks like a bunch of talking points designed to appeal to conservartives, to me.
    "Talking points." God how I wish we could retire that phrase. Don't care to rebut an argument? Call it a talking point.

    The only thing I question in Boehner's talking points is the "bi-partisan" bit. Other than that I can't refute a single talking point.

    BO's taking points seemed more talky and less pointed.

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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I believe that at this point Boehner can't stand the Teabaggers. I think next election, there won't be so many left in congress

    Congress: Republicans
    Boehner's going to single-handedly vote them all out?

    republicans have a 65% disapproval rating right now.
    It's funny, I remember when the health care debate was raging and all the polling data showed that Americans didn't want it, Obama was claiming how noble it was to do the "right" thing even if it's the unpopular thing. One things for sure, Dems are not going to be able to claim any high ground about listening to the people.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


  9. #109
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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I haven't seen either speech but this post is a little ironic given how many on the left (not saying you, I don't know), resent failing to raise taxes on people as if the money they wouldn't have to pay somehow just belongs to...uh...society, I guess.
    I would argue:

    1) The rich have benefited from government spending and government policy too. It's not just people getting welfare checks. To take the extreme example, how vastly has the CEO of FedEx benefited from having a lavish highway and aviation infrastructure in this country? How much does a business benefit from having those same roads to transport customers and employees from longer distances to the place of business? How about various contractors given taxpayer dollars to perform various tasks? Nobody works in a vacuum, nobody is ever successful entirely on their own. Before the slippery slope nonsense crops up (not necessarily from you, but someone would) no, this does not mean I support COMMUNISM or 99.999% tax rates. A rich person benefits to a greater degree from government spending and gets a greater marginal utility out of their dollar, so I don't see a problem with progressive taxation in principle.
    2) Given 1, it's a matter of priorities. We've all been taking the benefit of spending that was in excess of revenue. Rich and poor alike, we've all gotten an artificial boost through the government spending money it didn't have. Therefore, we should all have at least some sacrifice, and to demand that ALL of the sacrifice comes from those least able to afford it is just downright wrong.

    Of course, to those unable to think in terms other than black and white, what I just expressed is socialism.

    Opinions expressed are those of Deuce and Deuce alone. Void where prohibited. Restrictions apply. Not a treatment or cure for any disease or illness.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyDan View Post
    "Talking points." God how I wish we could retire that phrase. Don't care to rebut an argument? Call it a talking point.

    The only thing I question in Boehner's talking points is the "bi-partisan" bit. Other than that I can't refute a single talking point.

    BO's taking points seemed more talky and less pointed.
    You seem to be under the impression that I want to rebut his points and therefore I'm calling them talking points, but in order to rebut something, someone actually has to present an argument. Neither one of the douchebages who spoke tonight presented an argument. Neither actually stated a singel reason why their plan was actually the better one (They'd have to go into detail about the plans to do that, and that's a big "no no" iin a soundbite society).

    Both of those transcripts can be translated as "the other guys are bad, mmmkay? They have bad ideas, Mmmmkay? Our ideas are gooder than their ideas, mmmkay? It;s all their faults if things go to ****."

    I call the mindles drivel served up by both of these douchebags "talking points" because neither presented an argument for why their proposal was the better and more necessary one. They simply claimed theirs was better and left it at that. If they would ever say something substatiative, I'd certainly love to try to form a rebuttal, but that's not what these things are designed for.

    Both speeches do nothing other than appeal to those who already agree with them. Also known as: pandering.

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