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BREAKING: President Obama Addresses the Nation Tonight at 9

Conservative said:
I want, I want, I want. What are you willing to pay and why aren't you doing it now? This country wasn't built on your ideology and the problem is you seem to have made it but now don't want others to do the same thing. Classic jealousy
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The richs' want want want never ends. They won't be happy until the have it all. And they will endlessly repeat their one fact and engage in the politics of personal destruction until they have completely impoverished the middle class.
 
tessaesque said:
How exactly does this demonstrate welfare for the rich, again? This just shows revenue via payroll tax has increased while effective tax rates (for all individuals) have decreased.
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It demonstrates how the rich have shifted the tax burden onto the working class. The rich pay no payroll tax on their capital gains
 
tessaesque said:
How exactly does this demonstrate welfare for the rich, again? This just shows revenue via payroll tax has increased while effective tax rates (for all individuals) have decreased.
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Payroll taxes are collected disproportionately on low income people, as they phase out entirely above a certain income level. Thus raising the percentage of total taxes made up from payroll taxes benefits the wealthy.
 
liblady said:
no........i want to tax them a greater percentage on their unearned income, which HAS NOT been already taxed. 15% is ridiculous. i want the estate tax back.......heirs should not be able to inherit at a new cost basis for FREE.

i want their percentage to go up on their earned income, although that would be a drop in the bucket. i want to close all the loopholes. why should the rich pay 15% on their capital gains when others pay 20% on the income they SWEAT to earn?
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What unearned income?
Would you be okay with paying an inheritance tax based on a government assessment of the value of the inheritance?
How much more do you want them to pay on their income? How will this help if we're borrowing half of what we spend now?
Who is "rich"?
What is "fair share"?
 
sangha said:
It demonstrates how the rich have shifted the tax burden onto the working class. The rich pay no payroll tax on their capital gains
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Payroll taxes are a combination of income tax and employer taxes paid against the employee. Of course an individual doesn't pay payroll tax on capital gains. There's no employee involved.
 
Conservative said:
Amazing how people making 50,000 in your world cannot pay anything in FIT.
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Actually, it isn't just anyone making $50k. You're talking about a family of four making $50k that probably pays not FIT. IOW, two working people making $25k each, raising two children.
 
Conservative said:
You are the one talking about reducting payroll taxes and don't even know what payroll taxes fund. Amazing how people making 50,000 in your world cannot pay anything in FIT.
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I haven't said anything about reducing payroll taxes. I haven't said anything about the payroll tax rate. I have merely shown how the SHARE OF THE TOTAL TAX BURDEN has fallen disproportionately on the middle class by shifting the burder onto the working class. It would be helpful if you would pay more attention to what the chart actually says which is described in the heading of the chart (ie. SHARE OF FEDERAL TAX REVENUE) If you are unclear on what that means, all you have to do is ask.
 
tessaesque said:
What unearned income?
Would you be okay with paying an inheritance tax based on a government assessment of the value of the inheritance?
How much more do you want them to pay on their income? How will this help if we're borrowing half of what we spend now?
Who is "rich"?
What is "fair share"?
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The rich should pay their fair share on all their income. The middle class has to pay more than their fair share.

And if the rich elites paid their fair share, we would not have to borrow so much money. The welfare the rich recieve is being funded by borrowing, and they want the middle class to pay their debts.

chart_of_the_day_bush_policies_deficits_june_2010.gif
 
tessaesque said:
Payroll taxes are a combination of income tax and employer taxes paid against the employee. Of course an individual doesn't pay payroll tax on capital gains. There's no employee involved.
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Payroll taxes are not an income tax.
 
sangha said:
I haven't said anything about reducing payroll taxes. I haven't said anything about the payroll tax rate. I have merely shown how the SHARE OF THE TOTAL TAX BURDEN has fallen disproportionately on the middle class by shifting the burder onto the working class. It would be helpful if you would pay more attention to what the chart actually says which is described in the heading of the chart (ie. SHARE OF FEDERAL TAX REVENUE) If you are unclear on what that means, all you have to do is ask.
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Payroll tax generally refers to two different kinds of similar taxes. The first kind is a tax that employers are required to withhold from employees' wages, also known as withholding tax, pay-as-you-earn tax (PAYE), or pay-as-you-go tax (PAYG). The second kind is a tax that is paid from the employer's own funds and that is directly related to employing a worker, which can consist of a fixed charge or be proportionally linked to an employee's pay.
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For the year 2011, the employee's contribution has been temporarily reduced to 4.2%, while the employer's portion remained at 6.2%.[8]
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Employers are subject to unemployment taxes by the federal[10] and all state governments. The tax is a percentage of taxable wages[11] with a cap. The tax rate and cap vary by jurisdiction and by employer's industry and experience rating. For 2009, the typical maximum tax per employee was under $1,000
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Employer Payroll Taxes
Companies are responsible for paying their portion of payroll taxes. These payroll taxes are an added expense over and above the expense of an employee's gross pay. The employer-portion of payroll taxes include the following:
•Social Security taxes (6.2% up to the annual maximum)
•Medicare taxes (1.45% of wages)
•Federal unemployment taxes (FUTA)
•State unemployment taxes (SUTA)
FICA Taxes
FICA stands for the Federal Insurance Contributions Act. The FICA tax consists of both Social Security and Medicare taxes. Social Security and Medicare taxes are paid both by the employees and the employer. Both parties pay half of these taxes. Employees pay half, and employers pay the other half. Together both halves of the FICA taxes add up to 15.3%. The 15.3% FICA tax is broken down as follows:
•Social Security (Employee pays 6.2%)
•Social Security (Employer pays 6.2%)
•Medicare (Employee pays 1.45%)
•Medicare (Employer pays 1.45%)
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This is how the payroll tax works. It isn't just the "middle class" paying it; the employer (AKA the "rich" also pays part of it.
 
sangha said:
The rich should pay their fair share on all their income. The middle class has to pay more than their fair share.

And if the rich elites paid their fair share, we would not have to borrow so much money. The welfare the rich recieve is being funded by borrowing, and they want the middle class to pay their debts.

chart_of_the_day_bush_policies_deficits_june_2010.gif
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1. You didn't answer my questions at all.
2. That chart has nothing to do with your fake point.
 
It's funny how, when you talk about raising corporate tax rates, conservatives maintain that any hike would just be passed through to consumers. But when you talk about payroll taxes or health insurance, conservatives want to argue that it comes right out of the CEO's pocket.
 
tessaesque said:
This is how the payroll tax works. It isn't just the "middle class" paying it; the employer (AKA the "rich" also pays part of it.
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You said the payroll tax is an income tax on the employee. Why won't you admit that you were wrong when even your own source does not describe it as an income tax?

And payroll taxes do not apply to income above a certain level, which is just one more way the wealthy get away with avoiding to pay their fair share.

1) Payroll taxes are not income taxes
2) Everyone with an income pays taxes

When will the people making false claims to the opposite of this admit to their mistatements of fact?
 
Conservative said:
I want, I want, I want. What are you willing to pay and why aren't you doing it now? This country wasn't built on your ideology and the problem is you seem to have made it but now don't want others to do the same thing. Classic jealousy
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it actually was......we've functioned very well on a progressive tax.
 
AdamT said:
It's funny how, when you talk about raising corporate tax rates, conservatives maintain that any hike would just be passed through to consumers. But when you talk about payroll taxes or health insurance, conservatives want to argue that it comes right out of the CEO's pocket.
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1. I've never made the argument that tax hikes are passed on to the consumer.
2. I didn't say that all payroll taxes or all health insurance premiums are paid by the corporations..and I definitely didn't target the CEO's pocket...
 
sangha said:
You said the payroll tax is an income tax on the employee. Why won't you admit that you were wrong when even your own source does not describe it as an income tax?

And payroll taxes do not apply to income above a certain level, which is just one more way the wealthy get away with avoiding to pay their fair share.

1) Payroll taxes are not income taxes
2) Everyone with an income pays taxes

When will the people making false claims to the opposite of this admit to their mistatements of fact?
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Why should somebody who will never use SS or FICA have to pay for it?
 
sangha said:
You said the payroll tax is an income tax on the employee. Why won't you admit that you were wrong when even your own source does not describe it as an income tax?

And payroll taxes do not apply to income above a certain level, which is just one more way the wealthy get away with avoiding to pay their fair share.

1) Payroll taxes are not income taxes
2) Everyone with an income pays taxes

When will the people making false claims to the opposite of this admit to their mistatements of fact?
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You first.....
 
liblady said:
it actually was......we've functioned very well on a progressive tax.
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Absolutely. This country started out with a regressive tax structure which left it with a third-rate economy. Until we instituted a progressive tax system, we were an economic backwater. Afterwards, we became the wealthiest and most powerful nation in the history of the world.

The rightwingers want to undo all this and return us to our third world status so they can force workers to toil for slave wages
 
tessaesque said:
1. I've never made the argument that tax hikes are passed on to the consumer.
2. I didn't say that all payroll taxes or all health insurance premiums are paid by the corporations..and I definitely didn't target the CEO's pocket...
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Right, what you said was, "the employer (AKA the "rich" also pays part of it."
 
tessaesque said:
Why should somebody who will never use SS or FICA have to pay for it?
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So you wont admit that you were wrong when you said that payroll taxes are income taxes? Asking questions won't make me forget about your mistatements of fact.

And additional mistatements of fact wont do it either. Even the rich collect SS and use Medicare.
 
AdamT said:
Right, what you said was, "the employer (AKA the "rich" also pays part of it."
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Yup. That's what I said. And you tweaked it to make a generalization about my ideology. Good game.
 
sangha said:
So you wont admit that you were wrong when you said that payroll taxes are income taxes? Asking questions won't make me forget about your mistatements of fact.

And additional mistatements of fact wont do it either. Even the rich collect SS and use Medicare.
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Did you not read the first quote in the post I made? Payroll taxes are viewed as the federal withholdings on income earned, plus taxes for FICA (employer and employee), SS (employer and employee), and unemployment insurance (employer) as well as any state/local taxes.
 
tessaesque said:
Yup. That's what I said. And you tweaked it to make a generalization about my ideology. Good game.
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Payroll taxes are regressive because they don't apply to income above a certain level. As a result, the middle class pays a higher portion of its income in payroll taxes that the wealthy do.

It's just one more way the wealthy have tilted the tax system in order to insure that the wealth created by the middle class flows into their greedy pockets.
 
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