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Thread: Harry Reid Caves - No New Taxes

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    Re: Harry Reid Caves - No New Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Per Fark:





    And the sane ones blink. Good job. Twitter, specifically Frank Conniff, had this to say.
    Had to figure out some way to play the race card.

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    Re: Harry Reid Caves - No New Taxes

    Ohhh Democrats... Ohh Republicans.
    Republicans: Negotiating? What a joke!
    Democrats: We have no backbones..


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    Re: Harry Reid Caves - No New Taxes

    all thru this debt ceiling debate the white house has had 3 solid and unshifting priorities---to lift the roof hi enough to get thru the next presidential (he needs 2.4T), to protect programs from cuts, to raise revenue

    the knuckle dragging neanderthals, characteristically crass and uncompromising, have 2 simian demands---dollar for dollar (except that ratio keeps growing) and no new taxes

    the administration's chaotic behavior the last few days exposes clear as stanley mcchrystal exactly what barack the slasher's TOP priority has always been

    actually, that sunday nite when he turned on eric cantor and, by all accounts, reamed the reprobate from virginia---it was pretty obvious when the president stormed out of the room that nite where was his open sore

    cantor was needling the president, actually interrupting him 4 times---will you VETO a short term deal?

    the party in power still prefers, top priority, that LONG TERM deal

    but to get such thru the house...

    this caucus

    and there's no time

    still, that's what reid's about this morning, this last ditch effort to avoid having to have this debate all over again in the midst of the campaign

    however, his 2.7T offer, generous as it sounds, is already TOTALLY FALLING APART

    at least that's what i'm hearing outta the caucus

    reid relies on huge savings from "military draw downs" in iraq and obama's war, afghanistan

    the wingnuts and tinfoil hats, tho, see such "assets" as imaginary

    boehner's 1.2 doesn't touch defense (according to ap, as well as the hill and wapo...)

    My Way News - Boehner preparing to move on debt limit

    fyi

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    Re: Harry Reid Caves - No New Taxes

    As noted previously, I believe the negotiating approach undertaken in the debt ceiling-deficit reduction talks has been a bad one. It was an approach that invited posturing and an embrace of almost theological positions. At one point, the talks on the "grand bargain" had each side within $10 billion of one another. At that point, a genuine act of leadership would have had one side making the proposition that the difference be split (conceding $5 billion out of a potential $3.7 trillion plan is inconsequential). Speaker Boehner made no such offer to bridge the differences. President Obama threw dynamite into the emerging agreement with the suggestion to add $400 billion in revenue. Hence, even as the parties advocated their positions in good faith, the opportunity for a credible deficit reduction agreement might have been squandered.

    From the sidelines, individuals arguing that the debt ceiling should not be increased at all and, to some extent, that a failure to raise it would not inflict serious harm made an already difficult negotiation even more challenging. Such individuals are irresponsible, as they simply do not comprehend the vast degree of linkage between the U.S. and global economies, much less the macroeconomic impact and contagion risk associated with a failure to raise the debt ceiling. Certain others advocated that entitlement programs be kept off the table, insisting that the compact to older Americans is almost sacred in nature. They, too, are irresponsible. Those programs are the leading source of the nation's long-term fiscal imbalances. In the absence of reform, those programs will consume a growing share of the nation's finances, squeezing out other important programs, including but not limited to Defense.

    The stage is now set for the "great punt." A deal to raise the debt ceiling will likely be reached in time to avert a default. Deficit reduction associated with that deal will very likely be smaller than it would have been under the "grand bargain." At the same time, the extent of the nation's political dysfunction has been exposed and no responsible ratings agency should overlook it. Moreover, that dysfunction will almost certainly be reinforced when a significant number of representatives vote against hiking the debt ceiling.

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    Re: Harry Reid Caves - No New Taxes

    So voting your conscience is now dysfunction?

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    Re: Harry Reid Caves - No New Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    .... you know, John Boehner had a good point on Chris Wallace this Sunday. Compare where we were a year or two ago, right after the passage of Obamacare and with some calling for a second "Stimulus".... to where we are today; with even Democrats discussing the need for Trillions in cuts. Whatever happens, the Tea Party has changed the conversation in America, and for that, good on 'em. )
    Those positions are not mutually exclusive. We need more spending in the short term, and we need to cut spending in the long term. Unemployment is still at 9.2% and we are in no imminent danger of default; getting the economy back on track is more important than cutting spending right now.

    At the same time, the US does indeed have some long-term fiscal problems that need to be addressed. In other threads I've outlined the basic contours of what I think we need to do to fix the four big deficit drivers: Social security, health care, defense, and tax policy. THOSE are the deficit issues that need to be solved; slashing non-defense discretionary spending (especially in the immediate future) is completely barking up the wrong tree. It will, at best, do nothing to solve the long-term fiscal problem and may actually make it worse if it inhibits economic recovery.
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    Re: Harry Reid Caves - No New Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectStorm View Post
    So voting your conscience is now dysfunction?
    Political leaders cannot separate choices from responsibility for the consequences of those choices. Ignorance is not a valid excuse. A failure to raise the debt ceiling would lead to significant adverse consequences for the U.S. and also global economy. It would create a self-inflicted debt crisis. To make that choice, even in good conscience, is an example of dysfunction, because it is not a rational act.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 07-25-11 at 03:32 PM.

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    Re: Harry Reid Caves - No New Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    As noted previously, I believe the negotiating approach undertaken in the debt ceiling-deficit reduction talks has been a bad one. It was an approach that invited posturing and an embrace of almost theological positions. At one point, the talks on the "grand bargain" had each side within $10 billion of one another. At that point, a genuine act of leadership would have had one side making the proposition that the difference be split (conceding $5 billion out of a potential $3.7 trillion plan is inconsequential). Speaker Boehner made no such offer to bridge the differences. President Obama threw dynamite into the emerging agreement with the suggestion to add $400 billion in revenue. Hence, even as the parties advocated their positions in good faith, the opportunity for a credible deficit reduction agreement might have been squandered.

    From the sidelines, individuals arguing that the debt ceiling should not be increased at all and, to some extent, that a failure to raise it would not inflict serious harm made an already difficult negotiation even more challenging. Such individuals are irresponsible, as they simply do not comprehend the vast degree of linkage between the U.S. and global economies, much less the macroeconomic impact and contagion risk associated with a failure to raise the debt ceiling. Certain others advocated that entitlement programs be kept off the table, insisting that the compact to older Americans is almost sacred in nature. They, too, are irresponsible. Those programs are the leading source of the nation's long-term fiscal imbalances. In the absence of reform, those programs will consume a growing share of the nation's finances, squeezing out other important programs, including but not limited to Defense.

    The stage is now set for the "great punt." A deal to raise the debt ceiling will likely be reached in time to avert a default. Deficit reduction associated with that deal will very likely be smaller than it would have been under the "grand bargain." At the same time, the extent of the nation's political dysfunction has been exposed and no responsible ratings agency should overlook it. Moreover, that dysfunction will almost certainly be reinforced when a significant number of representatives vote against hiking the debt ceiling.
    Good point, but as I understand it, Boehner threw the first stick by asking for the repeal of Obamacare.

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    Re: Harry Reid Caves - No New Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Political leaders cannot separate choices from responsibility for the consequences of those choices. Ignorance is not a valid excuse. A failure to raise the debt ceiling would lead to significant adverse consequences for the U.S. and also global economy. It would create a self-inflicted debt crisis. To make that choice, even in good conscience, is an example of dysfunction, because it is not a rational act.
    We were told yesterday that not reaching a deal on the weekend would result in a major reaction from the markets. We didn't get an agreement and the markets have gave a collective shrug today.

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    Re: Harry Reid Caves - No New Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Good point, but as I understand it, Boehner threw the first stick by asking for the repeal of Obamacare.
    Thanks for the info. As I was on vacation at the time, I missed that (and probably more). Such a request also would constitute dynamite that could blow up a potential deal. Negotiations should be focused on the goal at hand. Wandering into ideological territory can only undermine prospects of reaching agreement.

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