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Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

StillBallin75 said:
Digs, that's been happening on both sides, if you've been following the conversation.
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Both sides have turned into a shouting match, but I really think it's fueled by the president and his arrogant attacks against the Republicans. It's not acceptable to order them around the way he is doing. Both sides are at fault. However, I think the president is at more fault and acting with more arrogance and lack of maturity.
 
deltabtry said:
The democratic and republican party are equally as guilty in these costly activities that it tries to peddle onto us as a worthy cause, and the American people fall for it hook line and sinker every time so that every four year they can get slapped in the face yet once again.
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sangha said:
There YOU go again. Instead of recognizing the fact that republicans can't balance a budget even when handed a surplus, you want to blame "govt" as if the democrats success in creating a surplus never happened.

The GOP campaigns on cutting spending and balancing budgets, but when in office, they spend like drunken sailors on leave. It doesn't matter how many times the repubs betray their rightwing principles; some people will continue to hold them blameless.
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How long has reading comprehension been a problem? The government is made up of Republicans and Democrats. Deltabtry is saying a POX on both parties, but you just fail to comprehend English. And during the Clinton Era, where were the GOP? Weren't they in control of the co-equal branch of Congress? How many times did President Clinton veto welfare reform before he saw the light and took credit for changing it?

Deltabtry is the one who is correct here. The stitch is not.
 
rocket88 said:
True enough, but it takes two people to have a he said, she said scenario. Clearly the other party to this is Boehner. So I'd say both sides are at fault for that.
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I would say all that both sides of this argument has to do is when in doubt refer to the constitution, but this isn't going to happen anytime soon.
 
deltabtry said:
I would say all that both sides of this argument has to do is when in doubt refer to the constitution, but this isn't going to happen anytime soon.
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The problem with your solution has been proven right here on this site. The Constitution no longer has any meaning to people on the left; except for what they want it to mean. Madison and Hamilton knew nothing about the Constitution. Modern liberals are the only ones who understand the "living" Constitution.
 
digsbe said:
Both sides have turned into a shouting match, but I really think it's fueled by the president and his arrogant attacks against the Republicans. It's not acceptable to order them around the way he is doing. Both sides are at fault. However, I think the president is at more fault and acting with more arrogance and lack of maturity.
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I've seen little, if any evidence of arrogant attacks by the President, up until now. But Congressional Dems and Repubs arrogantly attack each other on basically a daily basis.
 
This "Both sides are acting immature" crap is just that. Sorry.

One side has the advantage of the presidency, and one would therefore think, the advantage of having a president taking the lead

As it is, Obama is just another democrat hack. His voice is no more important than any other. He has not, and obviously cannot, lead. He can demagogue like an MSNBC host, but he cannot lead.
 
LuckyDan said:
This "Both sides are acting immature" crap is just that. Sorry.

One side has the advantage of the presidency, and one would therefore think, the advantage of having a president taking the lead

As it is, Obama is just another democrat hack. His voice is no more important than any other. He has not, and obviously cannot, lead. he can demagog like an MSNBC host, but he cannot lead.
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I don't see how that amounts to a real advantage in negotiations.
 
StillBallin75 said:
I've seen little, if any evidence of arrogant attacks by the President, up until now. But Congressional Dems and Repubs arrogantly attack each other on basically a daily basis.
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I take it you do not recall the speech President Obama gave chiding Cong. Ryan's budget as Ryan was sitting in the audience at the invitation of the President.
 
LesGovt said:
I take it you do not recall the speech President Obama gave chiding Cong. Ryan's budget as Ryan was sitting in the audience at the invitation of the President.
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I was more referring to debt negotiations since the end of the CR, and this was before that (IIRC, correct me if I'm wrong).

And FWIW, I commend Ryan for his efforts at actually producing a plan, but it was rather one-sided and had no hopes of actually becoming law.
 
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sangha said:
No, the debt ceiling is the real issue. Spending cuts are only being discussed because the party of no wouldn't negotiate without preconditions, and then when they were met, they stormed out anyway.

The colossal budgets were caused by the runaway spending of the republicans during the bush* years and the reason why tax revenues must be increased
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So wait. How do you explain $4trillion in accrued debt in 2.5 years, then? When we had a dem controlled white house, senate, and house?
 
LesGovt said:
I take it you do not recall the speech President Obama gave chiding Cong. Ryan's budget as Ryan was sitting in the audience at the invitation of the President.
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"Hey. I'm not sayin'...they can't have their private jets...I'm juss sayin' ... they gonna have ta pay a little more to fly 'em."

Puts the fear in ya, don't it? What a man.
 
StillBallin75 said:
I was more referring to debt negotiations since the end of the CR, and this was before that.

And FWIW, I commend Ryan for his efforts at actually producing a plan, but it was rather one-sided.
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The President is arrogant when he wants to be. Not pretty.
 
sangha said:
Once again, you are changing your story. First, there were none. Now, you say there was only one.

There have been many proposals going back and forth. Let me know when you're ready to discuss the facts.
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Of these many proposals going back and forth, which one do you prefer?
 
sangha said:
It's the rightwingers who are making stuff up and telling lies about how there are no plans.
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Post a link to at least one plan the dems (not a bipartisan group, just dems) have come up with.
 
It's no wonder Obama is winning the PR war here. Just contrast Obama's and Boehner's press conferences last night. Obama, for every question, gave detailed, substantive answers. You can argue his logic, you can argue with his principles, but he certainly is not out of his depth intellectually. Boehner on the other hand, just gave cookie cutter talking point after cookie cutter talking point. You could agree with him, you could oppose Obama, but he is clearly not on the same level intellectually...or if he is, he's afraid to show it and dumbs himself down to appeal to certain constituencies.

At this point the man should just tattoo "No job-crushing tax hikes for the American people" on his forehead so he doesn't have to speak anymore.
 
deltabtry said:
I think because it's turning into a he said she said scenario.
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I am sure that Obama could take a much more forceful stance on this, in fact, he has taken more forceful stances on other issues in the past. When that happens, he is accused of being too forceful. So when he backs down a bit, he is accused of not being a leader. Can't please some people I guess.

However, it is quite obviously, he is acting as the mediator here, at least from the liberal side. I am surprised that people can look past this fact and declare he is not living up to his role. :shrug:
 
LesGovt said:
The problem with your solution has been proven right here on this site. The Constitution no longer has any meaning to people on the left; except for what they want it to mean. Madison and Hamilton knew nothing about the Constitution. Modern liberals are the only ones who understand the "living" Constitution.
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Remember the good old days when Bush was trampling all over the Constitution with tortures, etc. And the left was talking about the Constitution and the Right were defending everything he did.

It seems to me that the party that doesn't hold the White House is always the one talking about the Constitution and limiting the power of the President. Until they're back in power. Just watch. All you guys will be remarkably quiet when someone with an (R) after his name comes in and starts expanding the power of the Oval Office.

Or did you suddenly get religion in '08? Now we must balance the budget (because the President is a Democrat), and now we must curtail the power of the Presidency and repect the Constitution (because the President is a Democrat).

You guys will have power again, and you will be defending his disrespect of the Constitution.
 
digsbe said:
Both sides have turned into a shouting match, but I really think it's fueled by the president and his arrogant attacks against the Republicans. It's not acceptable to order them around the way he is doing. Both sides are at fault. However, I think the president is at more fault and acting with more arrogance and lack of maturity.
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And yet if Obama didn't say anything he'd be accussed of not being enough of a leader.

And Obama needs to call on Congress to get this issue resolved. Pointing out that fact doesn't mean he's acting with arrogance.

Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped - Television Tropes & Idioms
 
rocket88 said:
Remember the good old days when Bush was trampling all over the Constitution with tortures, etc. And the left was talking about the Constitution and the Right were defending everything he did.

It seems to me that the party that doesn't hold the White House is always the one talking about the Constitution and limiting the power of the President. Until they're back in power. Just watch. All you guys will be remarkably quiet when someone with an (R) after his name comes in and starts expanding the power of the Oval Office.

Or did you suddenly get religion in '08? Now we must balance the budget (because the President is a Democrat), and now we must curtail the power of the Presidency and repect the Constitution (because the President is a Democrat).

You guys will have power again, and you will be defending his disrespect of the Constitution.
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Sorry, but you are talking to the wrong person. I have always believed that both parties are at fault and neither follow the Constitution. For example, the Medicare Prescription Drug Program and No Child Left Behind are certainly programs that the Federal Government is not authorized by the Constitution to handle.

As for the discussion on the Constitution, if you would like, I can point you to at least one, if not several, threads where liberals are arguing that the Constitution is virtually limitless in authorizing the Federal Government to act. Are you saying that modern liberals don't believe that? If so, please show us evidence of that.
 
It would be nice if these things could be solved without all of the stupid partisan finger pointing. Perhaps that will eventually be our undoing, and perhaps that needs to happen for both sides to open their eyes and realize that petty partisan bickering accomplishes absolutely nothing.
 
sangha said:
Rightwingers see what they want to see. Eight years of repubicans on a spending spree, and they think it's all Obamas' fault.
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75% through Obama's presidency and he still isn't responsible for anything. So much for that whole change thing.
 
digsbe said:
Obama is just proving that he has the maturity level of a child. They way is arrogantly attacking Republicans and ignoring the faults of the Democrats only shows his lack of leadership skills. It's extremely immature and unprofessional to order around those you need to compromise with. His sheer disrespect is disgusting in my opinion.
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I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to call bull****. He gave them more than his party wanted to give. He was willing to get out there and risk the ire of not only his base, but his party. And THEY STILL SAID NO. So **** them, and everybody who thinks they're doing the right thing. Come next election, they'll find out just how hard they dropped that ball.
 
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