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Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

The GOPsters killed the deal when they walked out, as is their habit. Like children, they throw a tantrum when they don't get their way


not really. Obama knows that a $1.2 Trillion tax hike is DOA. When you hand someone a grenade that is cooking off; don't be surprised when they throw it away.
 
I could care less if Obama raised the debt ceiling a million times so long as spending was under control.

The debt ceiling really isn't the issue, it's the colossal budget deficits forcing him to raise the ceiling by four trillion dollars in the span of two years.

No, the debt ceiling is the real issue. Spending cuts are only being discussed because the party of no wouldn't negotiate without preconditions, and then when they were met, they stormed out anyway.

The colossal budgets were caused by the runaway spending of the republicans during the bush* years and the reason why tax revenues must be increased
 
Nah. By now Obama has figured that he benefits electorally by running it past Aug 2. he will continue to put poison pills in any fix up until then - figuring in a worst case scenario at least Republican Leadership folds and he starts a civil war in the opposing party.

it's clever. mind you it is fairly narcissistic. but it's clever.

I doubt Obama has the balls to do that. If it comes down to it, he'll fold and give the Republicans what they want, just like every other time.
 
well they were snookered, that is true. But I would rather take the reformed than the untrustworthy.

I think it's naive to put trust in boobs who have proven, over and over again, that they can't be trusted to make a decent deal

this is incorrect. Republicans are the only ones to have actually put forth anything that would actually increase the debt ceiling, and that is because they know that a pliant media would be thrilled to help Obama blame the disruptions past Aug 2 on Republicans.

No, Obama has put forth multiple proposals for raising the debt ceiling, only to see them rejected by the childish leaders of the party of no.

again, this is incorrect. a post-Aug 2 collapse gives Obama an economic narrative, where currently he has none. If things continue as they are, and we are looking at around 8 - 8.5 %ish unemployment come Nov 2012, then he is doomed and he knows it. Ah, but if he can build a case for blaming republicans.....

It is correct, and the facts show it. The GOP wants unemployment to stay high, which is why they have done nothing about it. They while about how "govt can't create jobs" and then toss that argument to the side and whine about how unemployment is all Obamas' fault

Here's the record of job creation when the dems controlled the House, which was clearly trending up

beforegop.jpg


Now here's the trend since the Repubs took the House
aftergop.jpg
 
not really. Obama knows that a $1.2 Trillion tax hike is DOA. When you hand someone a grenade that is cooking off; don't be surprised when they throw it away.

Of course it's DOA. The rightwing has made it clear that they will not compromise.
 
Right. You have no idea what his plan was and he has no idea either.

The fact is that the one real plan this President had was rejected 97-0.

It's rightwingers who seem to have no idea what his plan was. They can't even admit that it exists.

The fact is that Obama has proposed several plans, but the party of no refuses to compromise
 
Of course it's DOA. The rightwing has made it clear that they will not compromise.

BS: Boehner had already given him $800 Bn in tax increases - and the President was free to cut whatever he liked.

It's rightwingers who seem to have no idea what his plan was. They can't even admit that it exists.

leaks and mutterings and suggestions with no specifics is not a plan. it is a plan to have a plan. The one actual plan that he gave us was so unrealistic that not even any Democrats wanted their name attached to it.
 
It is the republicans who have put the credit of the US at risk. They had no problem doing it 11 times when bush* was a president, but it's wrong when there's a democrat in the white house.

So just when in the **** is it finally ok to say "We're in deep ****. We can't afford to pay attention, it's time to stop this debt ceiling crap and get spending under control?" I don't give a **** if they did that **** 100 times under Bush, it's time to stop it NOW. When would YOU finally say "no more increase in debt ceiling? When our grandkids' grandkids would not be able to pay it off?

Damn I can't stand liberals who use the "Well, we did it before!" Excuse. Well, I ran a ****ing red light before too. It wasn't right then, and it ain't right now.
 
BS: Boehner had already given him $800 Bn in tax increases - and the President was free to cut whatever he liked.

No, the republicans have refused to compromise. Their regular tantrums and walkouts have proven this.



leaks and mutterings and suggestions with no specifics is not a plan. it is a plan to have a plan. The one actual plan that he gave us was so unrealistic that not even any Democrats wanted their name attached to it.
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So now you're back to "there was no plan" :roll:
 
So just when in the **** is it finally ok to say "We're in deep ****. We can't afford to pay attention, it's time to stop this debt ceiling crap and get spending under control?" I don't give a **** if they did that **** 100 times under Bush, it's time to stop it NOW. When would YOU finally say "no more increase in debt ceiling? When our grandkids' grandkids would not be able to pay it off?

The debt ceiling needs to be raised to cover the PAST borrowing that resulted from runaway spending during the bush* years. Paying off your debts incurred by PAST spending is completely different than cutting FUTURE spending.

The debt ceiling MUST be raised whenever our debts increase. The way to cut spending is to actually cut spending, and not by holding the ecomy hostage by threatening to renege on the debts that the republicans in congress racked up.

can't stand liberals who use the "Well, we did it before!" Excuse. Well, I ran a ****ing red light before too. It wasn't right then, and it ain't right now.

ANd I cant stand rightwingers who hold the economy hostage and scream "Stop me before I kill the economy again!!"
 
The colossal budgets were caused by the runaway spending of the republicans during the bush* years and the reason why tax revenues must be increased
I see, it was the money that Bush spent that caused Obama's budget deficits, not the money that Obama spent. Thank you - I was having trouble with your identification as an Independent but now realize you aren't claiming your views to be independent politically, but independent of reality, rationality, and common sense.

And just FYI - of our last five presidents, Bush actually spent the least.
 
No, the republicans have refused to compromise. Their regular tantrums and walkouts have proven this.

Republicans had an agreement - the President demanded the agreement change at the last minute, the Republicans refused.

So now you're back to "there was no plan" :roll:

other than his budget, no, he has never given us a plan. what was it the CBO said? "We Don't Score Speeches".
 
I see, it was the money that Bush spent that caused Obama's budget deficits, not the money that Obama spent. Thank you - I was having trouble with your identification as an Independent but now realize you aren't claiming your views to be independent politically, but independent of reality, rationality, and common sense.

And just FYI - of our last five presidents, Bush actually spent the least.

It wasn't Obama who created all that debt, but his budget has to include spending to service that debt. Obama didnt pass Medicare D, but his budget has to fund it. And on and on, TARP, HAS, TSA, and bloated pork laden Farm, Energy, and Transportation bills. He didn't create these massive spending programs, but his budget has to pay for them.

And just FYI, bush* and the republicans doubled the national debt
 
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Republicans had an agreement - the President demanded the agreement change at the last minute, the Republicans refused.



other than his budget, no, he has never given us a plan. what was it the CBO said? "We Don't Score Speeches".

The republicans never agreed to anything. And they had no plan to compromise. They have lived up to their reputation as the party of no
 
It's rightwingers who seem to have no idea what his plan was. They can't even admit that it exists.

The fact is that Obama has proposed several plans, but the party of no refuses to compromise

Okay then what is Obama's major plan? His special whoop-de-doo plan that wasn't rejected 97-0.

Do you have any idea?
 
It wasn't Obama who created all that debt

what?

wapoobamabudget1.jpg


of course, that actually hides the fact that from 2007 on Democrats controlled the congress - which is where spending bills must originate.

but his budget has to include spending to service that debt. Obama didnt pass Medicare, but his budget has to fund it. And on and on, TARP, HAS, TSA, and bloated pork laden Farm, Energy, and Transportation bills. He didn't create these massive spending programs, but his budget has to pay for them.

And just FYI, bush* and the republicans doubled the national debt

and Obama has added even more on since. the Stimulus alone cost more than Iraq did over a decade.
 
Which one? He's made several proposals

Could you please post a link to President Obama's plan where the details are given? If you cannot find that one, how about one from the Senate Democrats?
 
what?

wapoobamabudget1.jpg


of course, that actually hides the fact that from 2007 on Democrats controlled the congress - which is where spending bills must originate.



and Obama has added even more on since. the Stimulus alone cost more than Iraq did over a decade.

It's not fighting fairly when you burden leftists with facts. Their weapon of choice is hyperbole.
 
I'm sorry, why do we think that there are details when these were clearly SECRET NEGOTIATIONS? Ya know, behind closed doors and all? SECRET, meaning that nobody is supposed to know the details, and NEGOTIATIONS, meaning that the situation was always fluid and moving?

Nobody is going to make a secret plan PUBLIC. That kinda defeats the whole meaning of secret. If you want a plan that's publicly available and gives details, take a look at the gang of six plan.

http://thehill.com/images/stories/gangofsix_plan.pdf
 
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I'm sorry, why do we think that there are details when these were clearly SECRET NEGOTIATIONS? Ya know, behind closed doors and all? SECRET, meaning that nobody is supposed to know the details, and NEGOTIATIONS, meaning that the situation was always fluid and moving?

Nobody is going to make a secret plan PUBLIC. That kinda defeats the whole meaning of secret. If you want a plan that's publicly available and gives details, take a look at the gang of six plan.

http://thehill.com/images/stories/gangofsix_plan.pdf

Oh. Maybe some sunlight on the proposals would prove enlightening. I guess when they are secret, the Democrats can lie about what really happened yesterday. Pshaw!
 
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