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Thread: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    what?



    of course, that actually hides the fact that from 2007 on Democrats controlled the congress - which is where spending bills must originate.



    and Obama has added even more on since. the Stimulus alone cost more than Iraq did over a decade.
    It's not fighting fairly when you burden leftists with facts. Their weapon of choice is hyperbole.

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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Could you please post a link to President Obama's plan where the details are given? If you cannot find that one, how about one from the Senate Democrats?
    That would be this piece of comedy

    Obama unveils $3.73 trillion budget for 2012 - politics - White House - msnbc.com

    Or tragedy, as you like it.

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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyDan View Post
    That would be this piece of comedy

    Obama unveils $3.73 trillion budget for 2012 - politics - White House - msnbc.com

    Or tragedy, as you like it.
    It is a tragedy. It's difficult to joke about this sort of lunacy..

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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    I'm sorry, why do we think that there are details when these were clearly SECRET NEGOTIATIONS? Ya know, behind closed doors and all? SECRET, meaning that nobody is supposed to know the details, and NEGOTIATIONS, meaning that the situation was always fluid and moving?

    Nobody is going to make a secret plan PUBLIC. That kinda defeats the whole meaning of secret. If you want a plan that's publicly available and gives details, take a look at the gang of six plan.

    http://thehill.com/images/stories/gangofsix_plan.pdf
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 07-23-11 at 02:44 AM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm sorry, why do we think that there are details when these were clearly SECRET NEGOTIATIONS? Ya know, behind closed doors and all? SECRET, meaning that nobody is supposed to know the details, and NEGOTIATIONS, meaning that the situation was always fluid and moving?

    Nobody is going to make a secret plan PUBLIC. That kinda defeats the whole meaning of secret. If you want a plan that's publicly available and gives details, take a look at the gang of six plan.

    http://thehill.com/images/stories/gangofsix_plan.pdf
    Oh. Maybe some sunlight on the proposals would prove enlightening. I guess when they are secret, the Democrats can lie about what really happened yesterday. Pshaw!

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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Oh. Maybe some sunlight on the proposals would prove enlightening. I guess when they are secret, the Democrats can lie about what really happened yesterday. Pshaw!
    The reason they're secret is because once they're made public, idiot ideologues from both sides of the aisle start ruining the negotiations. Left-wing Dems go "entitlement reforms, we can't have that! Kill the talks now!" Far-right conservatives go "OMG tax increases! Scuttle this deal now!" Then we're back to square one. Like now.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    It wasn't Obama who created all that debt, but his budget has to include spending to service that debt. Obama didnt pass Medicare D, but his budget has to fund it. And on and on, TARP, HAS, TSA, and bloated pork laden Farm, Energy, and Transportation bills. He didn't create these massive spending programs, but his budget has to pay for them.
    Yes, same as every other president.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And just FYI, bush* and the republicans doubled the national debt
    The difference being that GDP was growing at the time, and debt remained around 60% of GDP for most of his presidency.

    It's about 100% of GDP right now, a level we haven't seen (or even come close to) since WWII.

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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    His best proposal.

    Which one did he support the most and which one did you find most appealing?
    I think you scared him away.

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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The rightwingers can't justify their obstinancy, so they have to pretend that Obama told them he would cheat to rationalize their walking away from a deal that would cut spending dramatically.

    Obama has cut taxes, and the rightwingers beleive that he increased taxes. Facts have no relation to the propoganda spewing from the right. They blame Obama for walking away from a deal, and praise republicans for walking away from a deal
    Actually, CNN is reporting Boehner asked to roll back a bunch of provisions in healthcare reform and the Whitehouse said "Fine, but we want to roll back the Bush tax cuts on the richest Americans."

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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    This is what i get from this whole fiasco: "We are republicans, and its our way or the highway democrats." Obama comes up and says "hey how bout this we you know try to work something out ill include more than $1 trillion in cuts to domestic and defense discretionary spending, as well as $650 billion in cuts to entitlement programs like SS, Medicare, Medicaid and other social lifenets, but can we have some tax increases and you know close some tax loopholes and corporate loopholes please?" Republicans come back and say "NO! YOUR A BIG SPENDER! AND YOUR GONNA TAX US TO DEATH." Obama comes back and says "What the flying ****, this is bull****" and then Republicans then walk out cuz they think they are the shizznit.


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