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Thread: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

  1. #221
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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Crow View Post
    This is all about nObama's election and NOT About the American people and that's why nObama won't compromise and is throwing fits, after all he created all the mess we are in.
    This is all about everyone's reelection after the past 30 years of out of control deficit spending. Pay attention.


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  2. #222
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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    OMG!!!

    Article V, Constitution of the United States of America
    The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

    I take it that this part of the Constitution was made null and void during Reconstruction or shortly thereafter. Is that correct? Can you provide any documentation that this part of the Constitution was made null and void?

    If amending was no longer necessary to change the Constitution and that the Federal Government was all powerful, why do we have Amendments beginning with the Sixteenth on? Why is that and do you have any documentation to support your views on this.

    I have read many books on the Constitution and my current reading regards the Fourteenth Amendment. I have read the Journal of the 39th Congress which is the Congress who wrote the Fourteenth Amendment and I cannot find where they mentioned anything about your thesis.

    Since this is so clear to you, it must be obvious that there is a great deal of evidence to support your theory. I look forward to reviewing.
    So your position is, nothing changed after the Civil War. Interesting interpretation of history. The way that power was supposed to be promulgated didn't change. I know that parts of the Constitution didn't change. There were amendments, and we agree that none of them changed the power structure as written in the Constitution. Yet, this changed.

    What part of the Constitution gave Lincoln the right to go to war against seceding states? What part gave him the right to free slaves by executive decree? Did this stop him? I think he was right, but the narrow view of the Constitution that says he did not have this power is exactly what paralyzed James Buchanan, who is probably the worst President in history.

    Do you need documentation that the Civil War actually occurred, or can we take that as given? Do you need documentation that the country changed afterwards? Because it's pretty obvious to most people with an 11th grade education that it did.

    I know that parts of the Constitution, as written, did not change. I'm not arguing that they did. I'm arguing that the nature of the Union changed regardless.
    Last edited by rocket88; 07-25-11 at 05:33 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  3. #223
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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    So your position is, nothing changed after the Civil War. Interesting interpretation of history. The way that power was supposed to be promulgated didn't change. I know that parts of the Constitution didn't change. There were amendments, and we agree that none of them changed the power structure as written in the Constitution. Yet, this changed.

    What part of the Constitution gave Lincoln the right to go to war against seceding states? What part gave him the right to free slaves by executive decree? Did this stop him? I think he was right, but the narrow view of the Constitution that says he did not have this power is exactly what paralyzed James Buchanan, who is probably the worst President in history.

    Do you need documentation that the Civil War actually occurred, or can we take that as given? Do you need documentation that the country changed afterwards? Because it's pretty obvious to most people with an 11th grade education that it did.

    I know that parts of the Constitution, as written, did not change. I'm not arguing that they did. I'm arguing that the nature of the Union changed regardless.
    You agree that there is an Article V of the Constitution and you further agree that Article V was never changed nor repealed nor was any amendment added that changed Article I, section 8. Amazing! I guess I only had a 10th grade edukashun. Snarky. LOL! Just snarky!

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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Whenever you think of Obama, think 'Cloward-Piven'. That's the name of the strategy by which Obama has sabotaged our economy. Everything he says and does goes to the full employment of that strategy. Obama seeks the destruction of the American economy by overloading it with debt.
    Last edited by ElCid; 07-25-11 at 05:57 PM.
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  5. #225
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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Crow View Post
    This is all about nObama's election and NOT About the American people and that's why nObama won't compromise and is throwing fits, after all he created all the mess we are in.
    Hope you continue to be a partisan hack and ignore the facts that both parties are playing politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElCid View Post
    Whenever you think of Obama, think 'Cloward-Piven'. That's the name of the strategy by which Obama has sabotaged our economy. Everything he says and does goes to the full employment of that strategy. Obama seeks the destruction of the American economy by overloading it with debt.

    Funny, seeing as how President Bush went and created the current deficit (The Bush Budget Deficit Death Spiral) (The Progress Report: The Bush Deficit)

    As well as the Republicans created the current debt. ($12 Trillion Republican National Debt)
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  6. #226
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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The stimulus was not 4.5T which the rightiies keep repeating. And a good deal of it was tax credits, not spending. Trying to blame the entire increase in spending on the stimulus and the extension of UI is ludicrous
    no one is saying that the stimulus was 4.5T. I have seen several people point out that once you fully account for it it approaches 1T. and nobody blames the entire increase on those two factors along. we've had Cash for Clunkers, we've added another li'l war, we've expanded funding for every department except defense.... we've done alot of spending lately on alot of things.

    the government has grown from about 20.5% of GDP under Bush to 24.5% under Obama. But, since government does not tax itself the same as it taxes investment, production, and labor; as it increases it's share of the economy, it pushes down taxes as a % of GDP. That is the reason for your oversize deficit right there.

    Most of it was passed under bush* or was required by legislation passed under bush*. For example, Obama has to service all the debt accumulated under reagan, ghwb and bush*. It's the law.
    servicing the debt acquired under bush is not driving our deficit any more than servicing the debt acquired under Obama is.

    And you'll never explain why Obamas' having to service debt created under reagan, ghwb and bush* is Obamas fault, because you can't
    on the contrary - i fully understand that cost. you don't seem to understand it's proportion to the rest of federal spending. Obama's spending hikes belong to him.

    The stimulus bill is Obamas responsibility, but that does not account for the entire increase in spending. It was just one small piece of the increase.
    It was not small. but you are correct that that is far from the only piece of profligate spending that has been inflicted upon us.

    And plenty of repubicans voted to extend UI benefits. They share in that too.
    then Democrats share just as much the spending increases that Bush put it; more so since they actually wrote the budget for the last two years of his presidency.

    Good for you. I have never said that the entire increase in spending is all on bush*. However, the facts clearly show that they are also not entirely on Obama either. In some cases, both parties are to blame. In others Obama. And in others, bush
    indeed, but let's not revert to arguments about how most of Obama's ramped-up spending is somehow Bush's fault. let Bush take the blame for his own spending, and let Obama take the blame for his.



    Again, the fact that Obama has increased funding for that doesn't mean that bush* is absolved of responsibility for the spending on education that passed under bush*[/QUOTE]

  7. #227
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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    This is all about everyone's reelection after the past 30 years of out of control deficit spending. Pay attention.
    Especially nObama's spending.
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  8. #228
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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Funny, seeing as how President Bush went and created the current deficit (The Bush Budget Deficit Death Spiral) (The Progress Report: The Bush Deficit)

    As well as the Republicans created the current debt. ($12 Trillion Republican National Debt)
    No fair introducing facts!!!!
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  9. #229
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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    You agree that there is an Article V of the Constitution and you further agree that Article V was never changed nor repealed nor was any amendment added that changed Article I, section 8. Amazing! I guess I only had a 10th grade edukashun. Snarky. LOL! Just snarky!
    I agree that the Constitution did not change (in some key areas). The interpretation and use of the Constitution changed radically. If you think that was wrong, you may have a point, but that toothpaste has been out of the tube for 150 years. You can't put it back now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  10. #230
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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by ElCid View Post
    Whenever you think of Obama, think 'Cloward-Piven'. That's the name of the strategy by which Obama has sabotaged our economy. Everything he says and does goes to the full employment of that strategy. Obama seeks the destruction of the American economy by overloading it with debt.
    I think Obama is just doing a piss-poor job of cleaning up after Bush Corp., et al, sabotaged the economy. As if correcting the economy isn't hard enough of a task, he has to do it against a strong GOP headwind that insists on ruling or ruining. National interests be damned, to these same people who got us in this fix to begin with. And appearantly, a whopping majority of my fellow Americans tend to agree.

    Not a good day for you guys. It gets lonely out on the perimeter.
    This too, shall pass.
    Last edited by Captain America; 07-25-11 at 08:37 PM.

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