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Thread: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

  1. #131
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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    This "Both sides are acting immature" crap is just that. Sorry.

    One side has the advantage of the presidency, and one would therefore think, the advantage of having a president taking the lead

    As it is, Obama is just another democrat hack. His voice is no more important than any other. He has not, and obviously cannot, lead. He can demagogue like an MSNBC host, but he cannot lead.

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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyDan View Post
    This "Both sides are acting immature" crap is just that. Sorry.

    One side has the advantage of the presidency, and one would therefore think, the advantage of having a president taking the lead

    As it is, Obama is just another democrat hack. His voice is no more important than any other. He has not, and obviously cannot, lead. he can demagog like an MSNBC host, but he cannot lead.
    I don't see how that amounts to a real advantage in negotiations.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  3. #133
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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I've seen little, if any evidence of arrogant attacks by the President, up until now. But Congressional Dems and Repubs arrogantly attack each other on basically a daily basis.
    I take it you do not recall the speech President Obama gave chiding Cong. Ryan's budget as Ryan was sitting in the audience at the invitation of the President.

  4. #134
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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I don't see how that amounts to a real advantage in negotiations.
    I'm saying, SB, that the President's voice should be heard loud and clear above all others. BO's is just more noise.

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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    I take it you do not recall the speech President Obama gave chiding Cong. Ryan's budget as Ryan was sitting in the audience at the invitation of the President.
    I was more referring to debt negotiations since the end of the CR, and this was before that (IIRC, correct me if I'm wrong).

    And FWIW, I commend Ryan for his efforts at actually producing a plan, but it was rather one-sided and had no hopes of actually becoming law.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 07-23-11 at 12:28 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  6. #136
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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, the debt ceiling is the real issue. Spending cuts are only being discussed because the party of no wouldn't negotiate without preconditions, and then when they were met, they stormed out anyway.

    The colossal budgets were caused by the runaway spending of the republicans during the bush* years and the reason why tax revenues must be increased
    So wait. How do you explain $4trillion in accrued debt in 2.5 years, then? When we had a dem controlled white house, senate, and house?
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    I take it you do not recall the speech President Obama gave chiding Cong. Ryan's budget as Ryan was sitting in the audience at the invitation of the President.
    "Hey. I'm not sayin'...they can't have their private jets...I'm juss sayin' ... they gonna have ta pay a little more to fly 'em."

    Puts the fear in ya, don't it? What a man.

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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I was more referring to debt negotiations since the end of the CR, and this was before that.

    And FWIW, I commend Ryan for his efforts at actually producing a plan, but it was rather one-sided.
    The President is arrogant when he wants to be. Not pretty.

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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Once again, you are changing your story. First, there were none. Now, you say there was only one.

    There have been many proposals going back and forth. Let me know when you're ready to discuss the facts.
    Of these many proposals going back and forth, which one do you prefer?

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    Re: Obama, Boehner at war over debt talk collapse


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