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Thread: Still No Budget Deal - Current Happenings

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    Re: Still No Budget Deal - Current Happenings

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Sory, but I wasn't concerned about your capitalization. If anything was wrong, it would be your use of the singular, party. It's plural.

    You say that average Americans are nutters. Okay. That's you opinion.
    Well, to be fair, he really meant the average taxpaying American who gets up every morning and goes to work, is productive, and who provides the money that allows the political class, the lazy, the indolent and the liberals to think well of themselves.

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    Re: Still No Budget Deal - Current Happenings

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Boehner never intended to agree to anything. His entire purpose is to hold the country ransom so he and his friends can keep getting their tax breaks.
    As well as the "rich" democrats like Pelosi. Ever wonder what she spouts is for show knowing it will not pass?
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Re: Still No Budget Deal - Current Happenings

    Latest:

    A bipartisan debt deal just about impossible now - CBS News

    I gotta go make some popcorn, so I can watch the fallout.

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    Re: Still No Budget Deal - Current Happenings

    what is being demostrated at WO is no party can lead. They are all too set in their political views to do what is right for the country. Yes they need to raise the debt ceiling. Congress needs to get our financial house in order. I am not willing to just give more to WO for them to spend. Over the years WO has shown they cannot spend what we give them effectivley. Balance the budget, then tell us what more they would like to do, what it will cost and maybe then.
    My response to my elected officals is if the US goes back on its debt, I will remember come election time.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Re: Still No Budget Deal - Current Happenings

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Sory, but I wasn't concerned about your capitalization. If anything was wrong, it would be your use of the singular, party. It's plural.

    You say that average Americans are nutters. Okay. That's you opinion.
    Sure, if Michelle Bachman, Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, are "average Americans," then sure.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Still No Budget Deal - Current Happenings

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Sure, if Michelle Bachman, Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, are "average Americans," then sure.
    I take it you really are not familiar with the rank and file of the Tea Parties.

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    Re: Still No Budget Deal - Current Happenings

    As I just got back from vacation, just a few quick thoughts:

    The spectacle in Washington is really quite extraordinary. Although the political leaders from both parties were elected to solve problems, they have increasingly put political grandstanding ahead of their fiduciary responsibility to the American public. The stunning dysfunctionality--both from the Congress and the White House--is something that one could point to in some of the past debt crises in developing countries in which a breakdown of leadership expedited the way to such crises. That a failure to raise the debt ceiling on a timely basis would spark a self-inflicted crisis of global proportions seems lost on the political leaders, their rhetoric notwithstanding. That numerous outsiders ranging from the Fiscal Commissions to the IMF have discussed in some detail what the U.S. needs to do to begin to put itself on a fiscally sustainable course also seems to have gone over the heads of the political leaders.

    In my opinion, even when the debt ceiling is raised--and I still expect it to be done prior to August 2--the political dysfunctionality problem by itself suggests that the U.S. is not worthy of a AAA rating. Hence, I would not be surprised that at least one of the major Ratings organizations would lower the U.S. credit rating even if the debt ceiling is raised on a timely basis. After all given the political risk involved, confidence that the U.S. would make the decisions that need to be made, much less implement them, would be challenged to say the least.

    Furthermore, by then, it is not implausible that Washington's failures would have led to at least some market adjustments (lower equities prices and higher yields for the U.S.). One should be careful to watch for signs of an onset of destructive market co-movements (higher yields and lower equities prices) should the impasse continue. Should such co-movements begin to take hold, things could spiral out of control. If so, even a plan with $4 trillion to $6 trillion in savings over the next 10 years might no longer be viewed as credible, especially if higher yields dramatically raise the nation's long-term debt service costs. The lessons of the financial panic of September-October 2008 in which the entire lending process began freezing up illustrate how things could spiral out of control.

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    Re: Still No Budget Deal - Current Happenings

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    As I just got back from vacation, just a few quick thoughts:

    The spectacle in Washington is really quite extraordinary. Although the political leaders from both parties were elected to solve problems, they have increasingly put political grandstanding ahead of their fiduciary responsibility to the American public. The stunning dysfunctionality--both from the Congress and the White House--is something that one could point to in some of the past debt crises in developing countries in which a breakdown of leadership expedited the way to such crises. That a failure to raise the debt ceiling on a timely basis would spark a self-inflicted crisis of global proportions seems lost on the political leaders, their rhetoric notwithstanding. That numerous outsiders ranging from the Fiscal Commissions to the IMF have discussed in some detail what the U.S. needs to do to begin to put itself on a fiscally sustainable course also seems to have gone over the heads of the political leaders.

    In my opinion, even when the debt ceiling is raised--and I still expect it to be done prior to August 2--the political dysfunctionality problem by itself suggests that the U.S. is not worthy of a AAA rating. Hence, I would not be surprised that at least one of the major Ratings organizations would lower the U.S. credit rating even if the debt ceiling is raised on a timely basis. After all given the political risk involved, confidence that the U.S. would make the decisions that need to be made, much less implement them, would be challenged to say the least.

    Furthermore, by then, it is not implausible that Washington's failures would have led to at least some market adjustments (lower equities prices and higher yields for the U.S.). One should be careful to watch for signs of an onset of destructive market co-movements (higher yields and lower equities prices) should the impasse continue. Should such co-movements begin to take hold, things could spiral out of control. If so, even a plan with $4 trillion to $6 trillion in savings over the next 10 years might no longer be viewed as credible, especially if higher yields dramatically raise the nation's long-term debt service costs. The lessons of the financial panic of September-October 2008 in which the entire lending process began freezing up illustrate how things could spiral out of control.
    Re: the bolded - you're right. I never even considered the possibility that America no longer deserved her AAA rating.

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    Re: Still No Budget Deal - Current Happenings

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    What does the individual mandate have to do with the debt limit? This is the kind of thing that's holding up resolving this matter. Every time it seem all sides have closed in on agreeing to some type of settlement, somebody throws something stupid into the negotiations or figures they have to get into the game. At every turn it's been someone within the GOP.

    First it was Cut, Cap and Balance, then it was cuts to entitlement programs, then it was the Gang of Six coming back to the bargaining table, now it's the individual mandate. If this country does go into default it will be because of Speaker Boehner and the GOP 100%.
    I almost forgot Nancy Pelosi also had to get in on the action as well. So, both sides have had individuals who weren't part of negotiations but just had to put their in.

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    Re: Still No Budget Deal - Current Happenings

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Neither side wants to step up and make the difficult decisions that both know has to be made, at least not until after the election. Both sides want to try to paint the other side as being obstructionist. They have been playing political games, and will continue to do so.

    Will they come to some sort of agreement before the government defaults and raises its interest payments to disastrous levels? Probably. Will they come up with a real long term solution? Possibly. Will they do so before the election? No way.
    I'm almost inclind to agree, but here's the catch: Folks who have read the Constitution will know that the blame is fully on Congress should the nation default, not the President. Why? Art. 1, Section 8, clause 2:

    The Congress shall have Power To borrow money on the credit of the United States.
    If the full faith and credit is diminished and the country cannot borrow money to pay its debts or if the value of our nation's currency is lowered because other countries no longer have confidence that the dollar is worth as much now as it once did and that lack of confidence holds true for a significant duration of time, Congress will be to blame because it is written in the Constitution that maintaining the full faith and credit of the United States is one of their enumerated powers. Thus, it is their responsibility to maintain the nation's credit worthiness.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 07-25-11 at 01:35 AM.

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