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Thread: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

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    Re: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Social Darwinism is a multi branched belief, that originated with the progressives.
    No arguments there. But I've seen plenty of people argue social darwinism to support their lack of concern for people in need.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

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    Re: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    There's really no leaps in logic. I have insurance, and yet the deductibles and co pays are rather steep. If free birth control (assuming it's convenient and effective) were offered "free" to any woman who needed them, it follows that unwanted births would decrease. The question: is the cost of free birth control less than the total costs of unwanted births. I think the answer is obvious to most people.
    That's assuming that all those people with insurance, wanted BC but couldn't afford it.
    That is a leap of logic.

    The answer is that, you don't value the use of birth control enough to actually pay for it or you would have already.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    There's really no leaps in logic. I have insurance, and yet the deductibles and co pays are rather steep.
    If you have mentioned it already sorry, but I have to ask, what provider do you have and what is your co-pay?

    If free birth control (assuming it's convenient and effective) were offered "free" to any woman who needed them, it follows that unwanted births would decrease. The question: is the cost of free birth control less than the total costs of unwanted births. I think the answer is obvious to most people.
    One would think that we wouldn't have to go over this again.. There is no such thing as free anything.

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    Re: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    No arguments there. But I've seen plenty of people argue social darwinism to support their lack of concern for people in need.
    Well using a blanket accusation of Social Darwinism will leave me wanting.
    Do you mean;
    *The learning from mistakes, Social Darwinism.
    *The let people rot, Social Darwinism.
    *The lower classes were born stupid, will remain stupid and should be separated, Social Darwinism.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That's assuming that all those people with insurance, wanted BC but couldn't afford it.
    That is a leap of logic.
    well not everyone does. But I can be so general about it because the vast majority of women do value birth control, and certainly don't want to deal with an unplanned pregnancy. I speak from experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The answer is that, you don't value the use of birth control enough to actually pay for it or you would have already.
    Those that don't value it are in the minority. Seriously. There are so many variables for why unwanted pregnancies occur, and it's not usually because the woman simply didn't care. Mistakes happen.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

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    Re: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Well using a blanket accusation of Social Darwinism will leave me wanting.
    Do you mean;
    *The learning from mistakes, Social Darwinism.
    *The let people rot, Social Darwinism.
    *The lower classes were born stupid, will remain stupid and should be separated, Social Darwinism.
    The last two.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

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    Re: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    well not everyone does. But I can be so general about it because the vast majority of women do value birth control, and certainly don't want to deal with an unplanned pregnancy. I speak from experience.
    I'd say some women do and some don't.
    One of those "actions speak louder than words" thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Those that don't value it are in the minority. Seriously. There are so many variables for why unwanted pregnancies occur, and it's not usually because the woman simply didn't care. Mistakes happen.
    I understand that completely.
    That's why I'm arguing that, making birth control free, won't necessary cause less pregnancies and abortions.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    The last two.
    I'm of the first and I believe that having some amount of "pain" is required in order for people to truly learn.
    It's a necessary part of positive human evolution and personal growth.

    That may sound uncaring or inhuman but the world requires negative things, in order for improvements to happen.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I'm not at all.
    See unplanned pregnancies ≠ unwanted pregnancies.

    You're assuming that all people who have unplanned pregnancies will use this and that all people who have unplanned pregnancies, do not want the child.

    You're making a lot of leaps with your assertions.

    The fact is that birth control is already widely affordable, why aren't these women using birth control now?
    Why incentive would be created to visit a doctor, to get BC when they didn't really care for it, beforehand?

    Cost is marginal as it is.
    How am I assuming that AT ALL? Did I say anything about costs of abortion? I am doing a purely mathematical comparison. People who use birth control to people who do not and the costs associated with it. I gave you as much leeway as possible by doing the highest cost of birth control without insurance and the lowest cost for giving birth. Note: My math only accounts for the cost of giving birth itself. Just delivery. Add in the costs of pre natal care and you could be saving tons of money. I think this should be available to anyone who needs it. I am not in favor of giving everyone free birth control and all types. I do think it would be a good idea to provide one or two birth control pills which are cheap to people who need it. I assure you, most women will not switch from a brand of contraceptives they are used to, to another one because it is marginally cheaper. Why don't we just try this in a city and see how it works. I think it is a good idea. There are chances it could be misused but it is more than likely to have positive effects. Btw, with the math I did. You would have to have 300 out of the 400 women still get pregnant after using the pill for the cost to equal the amount of women who do not take the pill. Would you like me to make you an excel sheet so that you can see that all statistics and probability would have to be thrown out the window for it to be possible that just as many women get pregnant with or without the pill!

  10. #160
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    Re: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

    Quote Originally Posted by lovetosing4678 View Post
    How am I assuming that AT ALL? Did I say anything about costs of abortion? I am doing a purely mathematical comparison. People who use birth control to people who do not and the costs associated with it. I gave you as much leeway as possible by doing the highest cost of birth control without insurance and the lowest cost for giving birth. Note: My math only accounts for the cost of giving birth itself. Just delivery. Add in the costs of pre natal care and you could be saving tons of money. I think this should be available to anyone who needs it. I am not in favor of giving everyone free birth control and all types. I do think it would be a good idea to provide one or two birth control pills which are cheap to people who need it. I assure you, most women will not switch from a brand of contraceptives they are used to, to another one because it is marginally cheaper. Why don't we just try this in a city and see how it works. I think it is a good idea. There are chances it could be misused but it is more than likely to have positive effects. Btw, with the math I did. You would have to have 300 out of the 400 women still get pregnant after using the pill for the cost to equal the amount of women who do not take the pill. Would you like me to make you an excel sheet so that you can see that all statistics and probability would have to be thrown out the window for it to be possible that just as many women get pregnant with or without the pill!
    I'm fine with localized experiments but that is not what the policy is proposing to do.

    The policy is specifically saying that, all women should get free contraceptives.
    It does not note income or need.

    So if that policy were put into effect, as proposed, women who can afford to pay for their own BC will now not have to.
    Other people will have to pick up the tab.

    It's a ridiculous proposition.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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