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Thread: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

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    Re: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Also note, that this won't actually be free.
    The cost will be rolled into the monthly premiums of both people who need and don't need BC.

    This is part of the reason why insurance costs so much.
    Given the cost of contraception, the premium increases will be minuscule. And given the attitudes of most people in this thread about reproductive choices (and Americans in general), I think most of us would gladly shoulder that small, additional cost to ensure that everyone can have access to birth control.

    The government should have done this a long time ago.

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    Re: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Yes yes we know... and how many more welfare recipients, and how many more food stamp recipients, and poor, and diseased, and homeless, and don't forget crime and then incarceration. Best to just cut the middleman out Deuce and just pay once for the operation and render people infertile. A modified broken window fallacy.
    Standard conservatism: take anything said to absurd degrees and attack that instead of making a real argument.

    Ockham, you're conservative, right? You support smaller government? You must also then support dissolution of the United States entirely, that's even less government!

    Ockham hates America and wants it to go away.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Given the cost of contraception, the premium increases will be minuscule. And given the attitudes of most people in this thread about reproductive choices (and Americans in general), I think most of us would gladly shoulder that small, additional cost to ensure that everyone can have access to birth control.

    The government should have done this a long time ago.
    No I'm not particularly happy shouldering the burden for other adults who could pay for it in full, themselves.

    If your in a financial situation where you can't afford BC, go to the local health department.
    They adjust cost based on income and need.

    I also don't support the government discriminating against my gender, in favor of another gender.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Standard conservatism: take anything said to absurd degrees and attack that instead of making a real argument.

    Ockham, you're conservative, right? You support smaller government? You must also then support dissolution of the United States entirely, that's even less government!
    Wait.. you just proved yourself to be a conservative Deuce since you just proved your earlier sentence of "take anything said to absurd degrees and attack that instead of making a real argument". Way to own yourself there dude.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Sure we could, in fact we already do but that is not what the government recommendation is saying.
    It's saying all women, not noting income or any need based reason, should get free BC among other things.

    What has been addressed?
    You pad the insurance plan with benefits, people will necessarily have to pay more, whether or not they actually use those benefits.
    Assuming it did what it was supposed to do. So assuming 400 women get birth control that couldn't get it before and it prevented 1 pregnancy it pays for itself. It is more likely that many more than just 1 pregnancy will be avoided therefore less money will be needed to cover the cost of prenatal care and giving birth and other costs associated with having children. Therefore the premiums could actually go down if it worked properly.

    I agree the cost of healthcare is too much which is why insurance costs so much. The reason this is, is because people think okay, it costs me $15 (co-pay) to go to the doctor, I'll go everytime I think something MIGHT be wrong. Also, and procedure costs around $100, might as well get that done. Everyone is having things done that don't need to be done. Very little of that care keeps costs down. Preventative care does though. Scans for cancer, birth control, etc are things that could actually help keep costs DOWN by preventing things that cost much more money. If people were less sick, insurance wouldn't cost as much because it wouldn't have to pay out so much.

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    Re: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    No I'm not particularly happy shouldering the burden for other adults who could pay for it in full, themselves.

    If your in a financial situation where you can't afford BC, go to the local health department.
    They adjust cost based on income and need.

    I also don't support the government discriminating against my gender, in favor of another gender.
    The way things are going there wont be any money at the local health department to pay for it. So you are not for insurance companies allowing women "free" birth control which would be paid for by its customers but you are in favor of the government giving "free" birth control paid for by tax payer dollars?

    Would you agree to this: Women can receive free birth control as long as they can prove need. The way to prove need would be to go online or somewhere, give them your name and they can check your taxes to see if you qualify and then you can have birth control?

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    Re: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

    Quote Originally Posted by lovetosing4678 View Post
    Assuming it did what it was supposed to do. So assuming 400 women get birth control that couldn't get it before and it prevented 1 pregnancy it pays for itself. It is more likely that many more than just 1 pregnancy will be avoided therefore less money will be needed to cover the cost of prenatal care and giving birth and other costs associated with having children. Therefore the premiums could actually go down if it worked properly.
    BC is an ongoing cost, for a lot of people and those potential savings are assumed, not necessarily real.

    Quote Originally Posted by lovetosing4678 View Post
    I agree the cost of healthcare is too much which is why insurance costs so much. The reason this is, is because people think okay, it costs me $15 (co-pay) to go to the doctor, I'll go everytime I think something MIGHT be wrong. Also, and procedure costs around $100, might as well get that done. Everyone is having things done that don't need to be done. Very little of that care keeps costs down. Preventative care does though. Scans for cancer, birth control, etc are things that could actually help keep costs DOWN by preventing things that cost much more money. If people were less sick, insurance wouldn't cost as much because it wouldn't have to pay out so much.
    Preventative medicine doesn't save money, already been documented.
    Preventative lifestyle practices save money.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    No I'm not particularly happy shouldering the burden for other adults who could pay for it in full, themselves.

    If your in a financial situation where you can't afford BC, go to the local health department.
    They adjust cost based on income and need.
    Well, won't that happen anyway? Insurance companies just pay claims on receipts. If they go to the local health department then they could get a discount while still applying it to insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I also don't support the government discriminating against my gender, in favor of another gender.
    Sour grapes. Your gender isn't being discriminated against. This isn't discrimination via omission. Worldwide research shows that empowering women is how you manage the reproductive health of populations, and that is UN policy as well. Offering the pill for free is far, far more effective than offering condoms for free.

    In principle you may have a case, but on a policy level it's irrelevant. Plus, when taken properly, the pill is more effective than condoms. Condoms can leak, break, or not be put on properly. It is harder to ensure that male populations are doing it right vs. women just taking a single pill every day that is clearly labelled for the day of the month.

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    Re: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

    Quote Originally Posted by lovetosing4678 View Post
    The way things are going there wont be any money at the local health department to pay for it. So you are not for insurance companies allowing women "free" birth control which would be paid for by its customers but you are in favor of the government giving "free" birth control paid for by tax payer dollars?

    Would you agree to this: Women can receive free birth control as long as they can prove need. The way to prove need would be to go online or somewhere, give them your name and they can check your taxes to see if you qualify and then you can have birth control?
    I typically don't agree with government paying for stuff that is already affordable to the vast majority of people.
    It doesn't serve any real purpose.

    This doesn't seem like it will motivate, already unmotivated people to use BC.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Contraceptive Recommendation Creates New Controversy for Health Care Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Well, won't that happen anyway? Insurance companies just pay claims on receipts. If they go to the local health department then they could get a discount while still applying it to insurance.
    The health department is typically for people without insurance.
    Although I know a lot of people who have access to inexpensive but comprehensive insurance who use it because it's free to them.

    That's another argument though, about how "the commons" are abused.

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Sour grapes. Your gender isn't being discriminated against. This isn't discrimination via omission. Worldwide research shows that empowering women is how you manage the reproductive health of populations, and that is UN policy as well. Offering the pill for free is far, far more effective than offering condoms for free.

    In principle you may have a case, but on a policy level it's irrelevant. Plus, when taken properly, the pill is more effective than condoms. Condoms can leak, break, or not be put on properly. It is harder to ensure that male populations are doing it right vs. women just taking a single pill every day that is clearly labelled for the day of the month.
    Of course it's implicit gender discrimination.
    Gender price discrimination was outlawed, yet policy benefit discrimination is supported by the government.
    That basically means that men have to pay the same price, for less medical benefits.

    I'm not against empowering women.
    Is it more empowering to have to use a paternal government or is it more empowering for women to accomplish things without it?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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