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Thread: Obama, in stand for gay rights, calls for repeal of DOMA

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    Re: Obama, in stand for gay rights, calls for repeal of DOMA

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    No it was a hit piece on the conservative media.
    Yes, they did show the right wing media to be liars in that video. That was only about 1 minute of the video though. Did you watch the rest or did you just close it the moment you realized it wasn't created by a member of your party?
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    Re: Obama, in stand for gay rights, calls for repeal of DOMA

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    That looks to me like you're incapable of responding to the arguments in the video.
    hell I didnt even watch the video but in this thread he has been cable of responding to any arguments or facts with anything logical. Everything he has tried has been thrown in his face or his logic used against him to prove he is wrong LOL He hasnt been able to back up much of anything. Every time he just deflects, ignores that he is wrong or brings up a meaningless non-related point. Its weird, but its also pretty funny.
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    Re: Obama, in stand for gay rights, calls for repeal of DOMA

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    You mean like a city giving gays more money to pay federal taxes
    How is that different than giving heterosexuals more money to pay federal taxes?

    I mean that it might be argued that a polygamist can take advantage of the tax code by taking multiple wives, circumventing any tax responsibility by grabbing up as many tax exemptions (aka wives) as possible.

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    Re: Obama, in stand for gay rights, calls for repeal of DOMA

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    So then explain why Muslims are suing to stop the laws
    Start a thread on the topic and I'll do so.

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    Re: Obama, in stand for gay rights, calls for repeal of DOMA

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Equal rights for a lifestyle choice? That is not what rights are about.
    Every "right" is about choice. Every law is about limiting choices.

    The 2nd Amendment grants the right to bear arms. It doesn't force people to own a gun. It doesn't force someone to shoot another person. Laws against murder prevent you from choosing to shoot someone you don't like.

    The 1st Amendment grants freedom of religion, it doesn't force people to choose a religion. It grants freedom of speech, it doesn't force people to say any thing. It grants freedom of assembly, it doesn't force people to assemble.

    Even if being gay is a choice (and most don't believe it is), this nation is a nation of freedom and the freedom to choose the way you live your life up to the point that the way you live your life has a negative impact on the rights of others. Who someone chooses to marry has no negative impact on your life or anyone else's.

    Eliminating DOMA doesn't force you to do anything. You can still think gays are icky people all you like. You do not have to attend a gay wedding or give gay couples wedding gifts. You don't even have to acknowledge that they are married (just as the Catholic Church doesn't acknowledge second marriages if their member gets divorced).

    The

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    Re: Obama, in stand for gay rights, calls for repeal of DOMA

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Every "right" is about choice.
    That depends on what you consider to be a "right." As you point out, the "right to free speech" is secured by the 1st amendment which says the Government cannot infringe on that right. So yes, you could say the right to free speech protects individual choice.

    But we also recognize a "right to education" that in effect secures an entitlement based on a moral/societal belief in the importance of education. It's hard to see how this right protects choice - on the contrary, it limits choice in that it burdens the population to provide this benefit (it conflicts with our right to liberty).

    The right to free speech derives from natural law and protects from the actions of others, whereas the right to education derives from legislation and puts obligations on others.

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Even if being gay is a choice (and most don't believe it is), this nation is a nation of freedom and the freedom to choose the way you live your life up to the point that the way you live your life has a negative impact on the rights of others. Who someone chooses to marry has no negative impact on your life or anyone else's.
    This is indeed a nation of freedom, and if we take to heart the natural rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, there should be no barrier to a homosexual relationship of any sort so long as it does not infringe on the rights of others.

    But those natural freedoms don't grant a right to civil marriage, which (like the right to education), is a moral/social creation that grants certain benefits and protections. By its very definition, civil marriage in fact does "force" people to do a lot of things in that they are required by law to respect that right. Whether or not it has a negative impact on anyone's life seems largely irrelevant from a legal perspective.

    Thus,
    Equal rights for a lifestyle choice based on "freedom to choose the way you live your life up to the point that the way you live your life has a negative impact on the rights of others" exists right now, unless you know of any laws prohibiting such activity.

    When it comes to equal rights for a civil right to marriage, however, "freedom to choose the way you live your life" provides no more justification for gay marriage than it does for a wealthy white man to claim rights to affirmative action.

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    Re: Obama, in stand for gay rights, calls for repeal of DOMA

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    No hetrosexuals will not enter a gay marriage.

    The law was changed because people make a lifestyle choice. Should we also pass sharia law because muslims want it?
    Sure some heterosexuals will enter into same sex marriages, for the same reasons that openly gay men and women enter into opposite sex marriages now and the same reasons that people who don't love each other still get married now, because the marriage will somehow benefit one or both parties.

    I know some people who would get married to someone they didn't love intimately, even someone of the same sex, just because the marriage would benefit the two of them in some way or another, either financially, emotionally, or both.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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