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Thread: House to Vote on "Cut, Cap, and Balance" Bill

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    Re: House to Vote on "Cut, Cap, and Balance" Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    House to Vote on "Cut, Cap, and Balance" Bill | C-SPAN



    Just seems like a whole bunch of political theater to me. It's not gonna pass into legislation.

    But the bigger picture is that there exists a contingent within Congress that see it as their duty to fundamentally change the nature of fiscal policy in Washington. Just IMHO, the new Tea Party candidates may have over-read their "mandate" from the 2010 midterms, much as the Dems did with the healthcare law in 2009-2010.
    Umm...perhaps I'm missing something here but...WHY is this "cut, cap, balance" bill bad? Don't we need to raise the debt ceiling? Doesn't this do that? Don't we need to cut spending? Doesn't this do that? Don't we need to balance the budget? Doesn't this do this?

    Jesus people, you've got a plan here that has everything in it that people want and its all of a sudden "bad"? WTH?
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    Re: House to Vote on "Cut, Cap, and Balance" Bill

    Earlier today Obama threatened he would veto the Cut, Cap, and Balance bill if it reaches his desk. Levin says the only problem with this is that, while he can veto the Cut and Cap part, if the Balanced Budget Amendment passes both the House and the Senate it goes to the states, not Obama. He’s got nothing to do with it.

    One would expect a brilliant, ivy league Constitutional Law Professor to know these things?


    Tim-
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    Re: House to Vote on "Cut, Cap, and Balance" Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Why is it a waste of time? It shows Obama and the democrats do not want a solution to our debt. A balanced budget would be a good start. It shows democrats do not want to be responsible with our money. It is time to cut thhem off.
    ptif,

    It's not a serious answer to the problem. The BBA can be over ridden by congress, it doesn't actually stop spending it just says it must be a "Balanced Budget" unless Congress decides otherwise. It doesn't end spending, it doesn't DO anything really.

    AND it won't pass.

    Think of this like a conservative version of the ERA. Sounds great till you realize it's rather a pointless exercise.


    Better would be to keep passing budgets that greatly curtail actual no **** spending across the board, and let the Senate and the WH explain why we should keep spending more then we can afford.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: House to Vote on "Cut, Cap, and Balance" Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Umm...perhaps I'm missing something here but...WHY is this "cut, cap, balance" bill bad?
    It's bad because the people who wrote it and sponsored know it won't pass. It's all political theater, and a waste of ****ing time.

    Don't we need to raise the debt ceiling? Doesn't this do that?
    No. Raising the debt ceiling, raises the debt ceiling. The people who sponsored this bill are attempting to make raising the debt ceiling contingent upon this bill being passed. Whatever their goals are, it's not going to happen anyway. It's all political showmanship.

    Don't we need to cut spending? Doesn't this do that? Don't we need to balance the budget? Doesn't this do this?
    No, this bill mandates spending cuts, spending caps, and a balanced-budget amendment to the Constitution but is rather low on details as to how to get there.

    Jesus people, you've got a plan here that has everything in it that people want and its all of a sudden "bad"? WTH?
    Sorry, that's just plain untrue. If you want my honest evaluation, read post #9 of this thread.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 07-19-11 at 07:17 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: House to Vote on "Cut, Cap, and Balance" Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Earlier today Obama threatened he would veto the Cut, Cap, and Balance bill if it reaches his desk. Levin says the only problem with this is that, while he can veto the Cut and Cap part, if the Balanced Budget Amendment passes both the House and the Senate it goes to the states, not Obama. He’s got nothing to do with it.

    One would expect a brilliant, ivy league Constitutional Law Professor to know these things?
    Tim-
    It's not as simple as you make it sound. He can certainly veto the balanced-budget part of the bill. The thing is that it has to be approved by a 2/3 supermajority anyway to be sent to the states, which is the same amount you need to override the veto anyway.

    This is all irrelevant though. It's never going to reach his desk in the first place, unless some serious tweaks are made in order to garner more bipartisan support.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: House to Vote on "Cut, Cap, and Balance" Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Earlier today Obama threatened he would veto the Cut, Cap, and Balance bill if it reaches his desk. Levin says the only problem with this is that, while he can veto the Cut and Cap part, if the Balanced Budget Amendment passes both the House and the Senate it goes to the states, not Obama. He’s got nothing to do with it.
    But the Balance section is part of this bill. If Levin (I'm assuming Mark) had read the bill carefully, then he would have understood that Title III is the part of H.R. 2560 that makes any raising of the debt ceiling contingent on a Balanced Budget Amendment passing both chambers of Congress and then sent to the states for potential ratification.

    I do not think President Obama will have to worry anyways since there is no way that a Balanced Budget Amendment will ever get through this Congress.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    One would expect a brilliant, ivy league Constitutional Law Professor to know these things?
    Except that President Obama has never said that he would veto the Balanced Budget Amendment. If you can link any statement in which he has states he will veto the Balanced Budget Amendment, then by all means do so.

    On the other hand, if you do want to talk about constitutional lightweights look at none other than Congressman Jason Cheffetz, the sponsor of this bill. So far in a single article I have seen Chaffetz claim that President Obama would have to explain why he would not sign a Balanced Budget Amendment and that the Republicans should call his bluff because there is no way that he would veto it.

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    Re: House to Vote on "Cut, Cap, and Balance" Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Showing Obama and the democrats for the partisan hacks they are is not a waste of time. It is time to get rid of these SPEND,SPEND,SPEND political hacks
    By replacing them with cut, cut, cut political hacks?

    Meh, I just wish we could have a little balance for once.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    Re: House to Vote on "Cut, Cap, and Balance" Bill

    sounds like posturing; no hope of this passing. it simply gives politicians a "look what i voted for" footnote for their campaign flyers.

    a balanced budget amendment is interesting, but i would have to see a specific proposal to determine if it's feasible outside of the theoretical. some states have them. partisan politicians mostly choose to cut education and sell toll roads. a nation would have to do a lot better job deciding what to cut.

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    Re: House to Vote on "Cut, Cap, and Balance" Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    sounds like posturing; no hope of this passing. it simply gives politicians a "look what i voted for" footnote for their campaign flyers.

    a balanced budget amendment is interesting, but i would have to see a specific proposal to determine if it's feasible outside of the theoretical. some states have them. partisan politicians mostly choose to cut education and sell toll roads. a nation would have to do a lot better job deciding what to cut.
    It would likely garner a lot more support of it was a plain and simple balanced-budget amendment. Instead it's this:

    Bill Text - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: House to Vote on "Cut, Cap, and Balance" Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    ptif,

    It's not a serious answer to the problem. The BBA can be over ridden by congress, it doesn't actually stop spending it just says it must be a "Balanced Budget" unless Congress decides otherwise. It doesn't end spending, it doesn't DO anything really.

    AND it won't pass.

    Think of this like a conservative version of the ERA. Sounds great till you realize it's rather a pointless exercise.


    Better would be to keep passing budgets that greatly curtail actual no **** spending across the board, and let the Senate and the WH explain why we should keep spending more then we can afford.
    No it will be a constitutional ammendment

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