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I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read more:

Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

Thunder said:
Goths look silly, draw attention to themselves based on their clothes, make-up, and piercings.

that may have had something to do with his being attacked.
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to be clear, you're not saying he asked for it, are you?
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

jding said:
regardless of hate crime status, these people who beat and robbed him should be pursued vigorously. However, the hate crime part does require separate investigation. These 4 people will have to belong to a group that targets whites only in their crimes. Otherwise, it's just bunch of nasties who spills racial slurs during whatever crime they commit to any target they come across simply because they are in the majority.
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That doesn't seem right.

If somebody kills a gay person all the whle screaming gay slurs, I think it would be charged as a hate crime even if theperson did not belong to an anti-gay group.

Does your opinion only apply to race based crimes?
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

Barbbtx said:
Let's say one serial rapist targets black women. Another one just targets women in general. Is one more pre-meditated than the other? Is one more guilty than the other? Should one get a harsher sentence?
Rape is rape.
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Rape is not a valid comparison to assault or murder. Rape is rape. There's no valid middle ground where motive can affect the situation. You can accidently kill someone in a fight, you can't accidently rape a person in a fight.

Motive is very important. It's the difference between a drunken bar-room accident resulting in manslaughter and a potential psychopath who stalked his victim for weeks before slaughtering them and burying the body in the backyard.
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

Thunder said:
Goths look silly, draw attention to themselves based on their clothes, make-up, and piercings.

that may have had something to do with his being attacked.
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Well I think you look silly. So I'm going to call you many racist things and then beat the **** out of you.

My attack is now justified.
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

Tettsuo said:
... you can't accidently rape a person in a fight.
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What if you have a really tiny penis and they have a really expansive bunghole?
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

ecofarm said:
It wouldn't be the first hate crime against a white successfully prosecuted. I support (US, not Euro-free-speech-restrictions) hate crime legislation; hate crime is terrorism and requires more severe action. If the accused are members of a white-hate group or white-hate literature is discovered in their background (that's the investigation required, Vic), nail the damn terrorists.

"Yeah, race matered here" is not enough. It must be the clear (physical evidenced) motivation of the crime. Calling someone the n-word and then punching them does not qualify as a hate crime. It's amazing how many people don't understand US hate crime legislation; it's short and clear.
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ecofarm said:
Americans here need to read their hate crime legislation and some case history, this is pathetic. People taking positions when they have no idea what they're talking about.
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Hate crime legislation is completely retarded, its nothing but thought crime.
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

Cold Highway said:
Hate crime legislation is completely retarded, its nothing but thought crime.
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You're pro-loli, right? Watch out for that patriot act, hate highway.
 
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Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

StillBallin75 said:
to be clear, you're not saying he asked for it, are you?
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No response yet huh? I'm fine with being wrong in my interpretation but I don't think I am.
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

Aunt Spiker said:
It's bad - generally speaking anytime someone is harassed adn beaten is bad. It is not *more bad* because he was white and *maybe* it was racially charged - because that belief (which is what hate crime legislation does) makes it worse to be beaten (or not as bad) depending on WHY the attack happened.

If someone attacked me and I don't know the motive - that hsould be no different than if they called me a certain name. Anyone - regardless of motive - should receive equal punishment.

Somewhere out there is someone who was attacked as well - in the same way - but the assailants just didn't psit out a few hateful slurs and *therefor* those assailants got off a little lighter.

Should they? Shouldn't everyone be punished equally for the ACTION of their crime - not their THOUGHT process?
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But take this into account: is a teenage boy painting, "I Love Amanda" on a park bench the same crime as painting a swastika on a synagogue?
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

FilmFestGuy said:
But take this into account: is a teenage boy painting, "I Love Amanda" on a park bench the same crime as painting a swastika on a synagogue?
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yes, according to folks who are against hate-crime laws.
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

@StillBallin75

I rest my case.
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

theplaydrive said:
Motive is always relevant in a crime - it's the difference between Murder 1 and Murder 2, so it's not anymore speculation than goes into any other case - the prosecution has to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. For your second point: a hate crime has more potential and actual societal effects than a non-hate crime, therefore non-hate crimes and hate crimes are hardly the same thing.
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I disagree. Both scenarios I posed have the same motive: Infuriated by either rejection or race, convenient victim is killed. Both are second degree murder. Using race as a penalty enhancer is simply another way of continuing the racial divide in this country, putting full societal equality further and further away.
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

DiAnna said:
I disagree. Both scenarios I posed have the same motive: Infuriated by either rejection or race, convenient victim is killed. Both are second degree murder. Using race as a penalty enhancer is simply another way of continuing the racial divide in this country, putting full societal equality further and further away.
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Infuriated by rejection and infuriated by race are not the same thing at all for many reasons. The former is specific to a person or action, the latter encompasses an entire population regardless of action. The former has little to no societal effects; the former has much greater actual and potential societal effects. Moreover, both cases could be 1st degree or 2nd degree murder depending on whether it's premeditated or not. Hate crime laws acknowledge the fact that crimes based on race, gender, sexuality, etc. are not equal to non-hate based crimes. They aren't equal no matter how you swing it.
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

Thunder said:
yes, according to folks who are against hate-crime laws.
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Yes. It is the same thing.
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

FilmFestGuy said:
But take this into account: is a teenage boy painting, "I Love Amanda" on a park bench the same crime as painting a swastika on a synagogue?
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What's the point of the swastika? is the kid a member of aryan nations, or some punk who's looking for attention?


This is simple vandalism.
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

ReverendHellh0und said:
What's the point of the swastika? is the kid a member of aryan nations, or some punk who's looking for attention?


This is simple vandalism.
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Painting a swastika on a synagogue is simple vandalism?
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

Manc Skipper said:
Painting a swastika on a synagogue is simple vandalism?
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Yes..... unless you want to suggest Obama's calling Irish "drunks" is hate speech....

Usually those who do it in say brooklyn are not only clueless, often they are at least part jewish.... Thought crime is a bad path.


The law doesn't need emotional laws designed to ease the sensetivities of a group.
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

ReverendHellh0und said:
Yes..... unless you want to suggest Obama's calling Irish "drunks" is hate speech....

Usually those who do it in say brooklyn are not only clueless, often they are at least part jewish.... Thought crime is a bad path.


The law doesn't need emotional laws designed to ease the sensetivities of a group.
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Hate crimes are less about emotion than they are about considering the societal effects of a crime, which may or may not be a good thing depending on who you talk to.
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

ReverendHellh0und said:
Read the story, it was a robbery, he then chased the gang and got a beatdown...
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He might not have gotten his ass whipped, if he'd had a piece.
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

apdst said:
He might not have gotten his ass whipped, if he'd had a piece.
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It's NYC, this wasn't an option, and he's emo, he wouldn't havc had the training, and it would have been too heavy for him to carry anyway.
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

He could probably heft a .32 compact, with a little vampire painted in nail polish on the side.
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

theplaydrive said:
Hate crimes are less about emotion than they are about considering the societal effects of a crime, which may or may not be a good thing depending on who you talk to.
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Which is why "murder for hire" has a greater penalty than killing "in the heat of the moment". It's why we have terrorism laws, that the rightwing supports, because they KNOW that "murder is murder" is BS, and that some murders are more damaging to society than others, except when it comes to protecting minorities...then it's "murder is murder"
 
Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

sangha said:
Which is why "murder for hire" has a greater penalty than killing "in the heat of the moment". It's why we have terrorism laws, that the rightwing supports, because they KNOW that "murder is murder" is BS, and that some murders are more damaging to society than others, except when it comes to protecting minorities...then it's "murder is murder"
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then Obama should be charged with hate crimes for calling the irish drunks. :roll:


And this argument is asinine. If the colors were reversed, this libertarian would say the same thing. please.
 
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