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  1. #221
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    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    I'd like to note that there are very few hate crime trials and convictions in the US, because of the burden of evidence. As an acquittal means the person cannot be tried again for regular murder (the strongest and most rational basis for arguing against hate crimes), we do not use the charge unless the case is basically already closed from the git go. The asking for additional investigation (in either case) is in hopes of finding a "smoking gun" (hate organization or literature). The vast majority of hate crimes are probably prosecuted as regular crimes because of a lack, or ambiguity, of the physical evidence relating to the charge of hate crime.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 07-23-11 at 04:57 AM.

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    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    According to what you wrote, and I have no idea how complete that was, the police determined that the motive was not racial hatred, but theft. And they asked the FBI to weigh in to ensure they were making the correct decision. As has been pointed out in a previous post, hate crimes require more than just an exclamation that expresses bias against a group. It requires that the prosecution prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the criminal act was motivated by bias
    And I think it was....There was no reason for these youths to be in that neighborhood. The police, and the FBI made the wrong determination here. If this were a gang of white kids, stalking a black neighborhood and beating the hell out of black people to rob them then you can bet your arse, that Sharpton, Jackson, and the rest of the race hustlers would be out in droves. But let that be a young white man, and nothing.

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    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    That happened because you're stupid and weak and because this whole society bought into that moronic MTV CNN philosophy of loving everyone no matter what. Then people are suprised when things like this happen. They shouldn't. There's no interest in equal rights, there never was. This is all an invention of white bourgeois society because they're too weak to fight and they don't want their bourgeois lifestyle to be inconvenienced. So they come up with these fake theories that we can get to this point of total justice and complete tolerance in society, when in fact that is completely impossible given man's biological characteristics.
    Freedom is not free.

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    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by Иосиф Сталин View Post
    That happened because you're stupid and weak and because this whole society bought into that moronic MTV CNN philosophy of loving everyone no matter what. Then people are suprised when things like this happen. They shouldn't. There's no interest in equal rights, there never was. This is all an invention of white bourgeois society because they're too weak to fight and they don't want their bourgeois lifestyle to be inconvenienced. So they come up with these fake theories that we can get to this point of total justice and complete tolerance in society, when in fact that is completely impossible given man's biological characteristics.
    Stalin's communism was a complete failure.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I'd like to note that there are very few hate crime trials and convictions in the US, because of the burden of evidence. As an acquittal means the person cannot be tried again for regular murder (the strongest and most rational basis for arguing against hate crimes), we do not use the charge unless the case is basically already closed from the git go. The asking for additional investigation (in either case) is in hopes of finding a "smoking gun" (hate organization or literature). The vast majority of hate crimes are probably prosecuted as regular crimes because of a lack, or ambiguity, of the physical evidence relating to the charge of hate crime.
    That's not entirely true. No one is tried on a charge of "hate crime" alone. People who are accussed of committing a hate crime are also charged with an underlying crime, such as murder. As I understand it, the hate crime charge is added to the indictment. The judge or jury can find the accused guilty of the underlying crime, and then considers whether or not the accussed is also guilty of violating the hate crimes law. If so, additional penalties are added to the sentence.

    As far as the use of these laws, here's a chart to put it into perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And I think it was....There was no reason for these youths to be in that neighborhood. The police, and the FBI made the wrong determination here. If this were a gang of white kids, stalking a black neighborhood and beating the hell out of black people to rob them then you can bet your arse, that Sharpton, Jackson, and the rest of the race hustlers would be out in droves. But let that be a young white man, and nothing.

    j-mac
    Nothing but unsubstantiated and nonsensical opinion spew masquerading as fact
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #227
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    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    That's not entirely true. No one is tried on a charge of "hate crime" alone. People who are accussed of committing a hate crime are also charged with an underlying crime, such as murder. As I understand it, the hate crime charge is added to the indictment. The judge or jury can find the accused guilty of the underlying crime, and then considers whether or not the accussed is also guilty of violating the hate crimes law. If so, additional penalties are added to the sentence.

    As far as the use of these laws, here's a chart to put it into perspective
    I'm not sure if it is always tacked on or a separate charge, but I've had too much ignorance from others (not you) to explore further. It's pointless. People have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. I'll explore that aspect when more than one or two people have a clue, someday.

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    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I'm not sure if it is always tacked on or a separate charge, but I've had too much ignorance from others (not you) to explore further. It's pointless. People have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. I'll explore that aspect when more than one or two people have a clue, someday.
    Actually, you motivated me to look it up, and we're both right. There are some HCL's which are criminal charges on their own, while others are tacked onto the underlying crime in order to enhance a sentence. However, in each case, there needs to be a criminal act and not just signs of bias.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by Иосиф Сталин View Post
    That happened because you're stupid and weak and because this whole society bought into that moronic MTV CNN philosophy of loving everyone no matter what. Then people are suprised when things like this happen. They shouldn't. There's no interest in equal rights, there never was. This is all an invention of white bourgeois society because they're too weak to fight and they don't want their bourgeois lifestyle to be inconvenienced. So they come up with these fake theories that we can get to this point of total justice and complete tolerance in society, when in fact that is completely impossible given man's biological characteristics.
    The entire progression of American history disagrees.

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