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Thread: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read more:

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    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    It wouldn't be the first hate crime against a white successfully prosecuted. I support (US, not Euro-free-speech-restrictions) hate crime legislation; hate crime is terrorism and requires more severe action. If the accused are members of a white-hate group or white-hate literature is discovered in their background (that's the investigation required, Vic), nail the damn terrorists.

    "Yeah, race matered here" is not enough. It must be the clear (physical evidenced) motivation of the crime. Calling someone the n-word and then punching them does not qualify as a hate crime. It's amazing how many people don't understand US hate crime legislation; it's short and clear.
    I agree... Hate is a motive in certain crimes. Some crimes are premeditated, some are committed in passion, and some people are motivated by hate. We have hate groups. A crime is a crime. A motive is a motive. I don't get why people say there is no such thing as a hate crime.

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    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Meh I got beaten up once in a race riot in Brooklyn.
    That's sexy, do you have any scars....

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    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    This question applied to the post you quoted makes absolutely no sense.
    Pre meditated murders are punished more harshly because society has decided that they present a greater danger to society. If it is OK to punish a pre meditated murder more harshly than a non pre-meditated one because it does more damage to society , then why is it wrong to punish one pre-meditated murder more harshly than another pre-meditated murder that does not harm society as much as the first pre-meditated murder?

    As a society, we have never punished all murders the same way. Not even murders in the same class. Sentences are, and have always been, determined by a wide range of factors such as the heinous nature of the crime, the means used, the intent and yes, THE MOTIVE. So why is it wrong to use motive to enhance a sentence when we have a long history of using motive to enhance a sentence?
    Last edited by sangha; 07-22-11 at 10:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I agree... Hate is a motive in certain crimes. Some crimes are premeditated, some are committed in passion, and some people are motivated by hate. We have hate groups. A crime is a crime. A motive is a motive. I don't get why people say there is no such thing as a hate crime.
    We have a long history of basing sentences on a variety of factors including motive. HCL's are completely consistent with this legal tradition
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    It's bad - generally speaking anytime someone is harassed adn beaten is bad. It is not *more bad* because he was white and *maybe* it was racially charged - because that belief (which is what hate crime legislation does) makes it worse to be beaten (or not as bad) depending on WHY the attack happened.

    If someone attacked me and I don't know the motive - that hsould be no different than if they called me a certain name. Anyone - regardless of motive - should receive equal punishment.

    Somewhere out there is someone who was attacked as well - in the same way - but the assailants just didn't psit out a few hateful slurs and *therefor* those assailants got off a little lighter.

    Should they? Shouldn't everyone be punished equally for the ACTION of their crime - not their THOUGHT process?
    I agree that sometimes there is a blurry line, but sometimes there isn't a blurry line. Some hate groups actively go out and target people simply because of their race, ethnicity, etc. In the the courtroom, hate is an undeniable motive in that situation and it cannot be ignored. We shouldn't tolerate hate or hate crimes, or just shrug when a neo nazi stomps on somebody's head in because they are simply Jewish and act like it's "just a assault." We should be tough of those people and those groups.

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    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I do not believe that a serial killer that stalks and murders women has less effect on society than the person who kills a minority out of racism.
    When is the last time riots broke out after a serial killer stalked and murdered women? When is last time tensions between men and women escalated because a serial killer stalked and killed women? Riots can happen and tension escalates when hate crimes against minorities and gay people happen, locally or nationally. If you don't see that, then you're the one whose not acknowledging reality and that's the reality that hate crime legislation takes into account.

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    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Terrorism, really? What, exactly, makes someone a terrorist if they punch a black guy and call him a nigger rather than if they just punch him?
    Look into lynch mobs in American history or the way the KKK openly treated blacks... it does constitute as terrorism and it was sick.

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    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Americans here need to read their hate crime legislation and some case history, this is pathetic. People taking positions when they have no idea what they're talking about.
    People are idiots. They think hate crimes legislation is just affording special protection to minorities and non whites. It's basically white people throwing a fit, and the fact is, hate crime legislation protects whites as much as any other race.

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    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Terrorism, really? What, exactly, makes someone a terrorist if they punch a black guy and call him a nigger rather than if they just punch him?
    With posts like the above, no wonder Australia and most Australians still wont acknowledge the way they raped, terrorized, isolated, drugged and then condemned aboriginals to living in giant cages. The ignorance of most people when discussing racism should come as absolutely no surprise. However, it's always shocking when somebody makes a snarky remark about it. The way it has been used in order to subjugate millions of people around the world, including whites, is indeed terrorism. When whites in Rhodesia were being killed by black vigilantes, that was terrorism and well as racism. When whites were running around the US South burning up little girls in churches, that was terrorism as well as racism. Why was it terrorism? It was terrorism because it was meant to terrorize an entire community of people. Why was it racism? Well, they weren't being killed because they had prettier hair. The post above is a perfect example of why discussing race with the average individual is useless. It's really far more complex than the average little mind can understand. The debate eventually gets dumbed down to: "YEAH! WELL I DIDN'T OWN SLAVEZ! omdfgsa"
    Last edited by Hatuey; 07-23-11 at 03:34 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So why is it now?

    j-mac
    Regarding the case you cite...

    There needs to be evidence that race was the only motive (or, in liberal interpretation of the law, at least the vastly primary factor). Prove that a rich black community nearby would not have been a fine selection for the accused in question. To establish this we must find evidence of involvement in white-hate organizations or literature. Lacking said evidence, it must be presumed that the neighborhood was a target of opportunity and that the youth were not hunting white people for the purpose of inciting terror.


    The same is true in the case of the OP. We must establish an association with a hate-group or with hate literature in order to charge the accused with a hate crime. It cannot be a personal, financial or random-violence crime and be a hate crime. We must support the motive of hate with undeniable evidence, in order to set aside all possible other motives.



    Class dissed.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 07-23-11 at 04:07 AM.

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