Page 21 of 23 FirstFirst ... 111920212223 LastLast
Results 201 to 210 of 229

Thread: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read more:

  1. #201
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Then do not state as fact that women have special status under hate crimes statutes based solely on their gender when there has not been a single case of a mysoginist murderer being charged with a hate crime.
    I will express my opinion however and whenever I choose.

    Yes, they are the exact same murder. One murder is based upon hatred of women; the other is based upon hatred of minoritites, yet one is prosecuted as a hate crime and one is not. The law thus declares that the murder of females based solely upon their gender is less important to society than the murder of minorities based solely upon their race/religion/ethnicity/sexual orientation. If you do not see the dicotomy of such "special" status in a free and equal society, then we will have to agree to disagree.
    Even if what you said were true, it does not lead to the conclusion you have formed. Society has a long tradition of prosecuting criminals differently based on the perceived harm to society. If our society has decided that murders based on race/religion/ethnicity/sexual orientation represent a greater harm to our society than murder based on gender, then I see nothing in our legal traditions that prevents us from doing so. We have a long history of basing the sentence of a crime on the motive of the perpetrator and it does not in any way endanger our free and equal society because these laws protect every race/religion/ethnicity/sexual orientation equally. When you can identify people who hanve no race, no beliefs about religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation, then you might have a case for unequal protection under the law. Until then, the law protects all people equally.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #202
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    So you are saying in the bolded part that murdering a person of Mexican descent because one hates Mexican should be punished more harshly than a crime where one merely stalked and murdered women, even though all the crimes were premeditated? This is fairness to you... why? Because stalking and murdering women because one hates women is less of a crime against society than murdering a minority because one hates minorities?

    I disagree. Premeditated murder is premeditated murder. The law should judge them equally.
    Can you explain why premeditated murder should be punished more harshly than non-premeditated murder? That is, if that is what you believe (I'm not sure)
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #203
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by Krasche View Post
    Umm... I don't understand hate crime laws at all. I know their meant for if you kill someone of another race under suspicion of "hating them".... but people who commit crimes against others of the same race still hate that person..... So aren't all violent crimes technically "Hate crimes"? Because last I checked you don't shoot somebody you like. You don't just walk up to your buddy and be like "What's up" and shoot them. It doesn't happen.. All violent crimes are fueled by hate, no matter the race of the victim, so I find hate crime laws rather stupid.
    Well, actually, when it comes to "murder for hire", there need not be any hate involved at all. Money has often been a motive.

    Anf hate crime laws do not require a jury to determine any suspects state of mind. Simply put, if a jury decides that the perp was motivated to commit the crime by his bias against the victims race/religion/ethnicity/etc then the convicted is subject to greater penalties. This is not any different from the hundreds of other laws which provide different punishments for the same criminal act based on the motive of the perpetrator. Murder for hire is punished more harshly than some other forms of murder. Murders committed during the commission of another crime are sometimes treated more harshly than murder for some other reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  4. #204
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by Krasche View Post
    Fair enough. But they didn't kill that entire group, they killed one man who happened to be in that group. The crime is the same regardless of motive.
    Motive has often been used to apply greater penalties to the convicted.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  5. #205
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Earlier I spoke about a young man in Columbia SC that was attacked by a group of black males...Here is the story with some follow up



    Then a follow up



    Notice that the police asked the FBI to review to make sure that hate crimes charges were NOT warranted. If this were reversed, I am nearly positive that the wording would have been reversed.

    Now this area is predominately a young white solid middle class area, here are the demographics...





    Now this is an average up and coming area of SC, income above the median for the country, low crime, and advertised as a place to raise young children.

    Now the likelihood is that these black youths were not members of this community, so that leads to them premeditating to come to that area to harass people and cause trouble. Again I assert if this were white teens migrating to a black neighborhood to do this than hate crime charges would not be in question. So why is it now?

    j-mac
    According to what you wrote, and I have no idea how complete that was, the police determined that the motive was not racial hatred, but theft. And they asked the FBI to weigh in to ensure they were making the correct decision. As has been pointed out in a previous post, hate crimes require more than just an exclamation that expresses bias against a group. It requires that the prosecution prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the criminal act was motivated by bias
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #206
    Dungeon Master
    Hooter Babe

    DiAnna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Northern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,701
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Um no, I'm not. I said that anyone who becomes more racially divided because of the existence of hate crimes is already racist to begin with so the idea hate crime legislation increases racial division matters is irrelevant to me when considering it's effect on society.


    No, I accept anyone's belief that hate crime legislation should not exist even if I do not subscribe to them. What I do not accept is your refusal to acknowledge the fact that hate crimes are not "equal" to non-hate crimes. Hate crimes have greater actual and potential societal effects than non-hate crimes. To deny this is to deny reality.
    It is not "reality" merely because you say that it is. It is not my reality. I do not believe that a serial killer that stalks and murders women has less effect on society than the person who kills a minority out of racism. It's as simple as that. Hate crimes denigrate the lives of individuals who are victims of exactly the same crimes simply because they do not belong to a protected minority. To deny that is, in my view, to deny reality and I'm hardly the only one who feels this way.

  7. #207
    Dungeon Master
    Hooter Babe

    DiAnna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Northern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,701
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Can you explain why premeditated murder should be punished more harshly than non-premeditated murder? That is, if that is what you believe (I'm not sure)
    This question applied to the post you quoted makes absolutely no sense.

  8. #208
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    It is not "reality" merely because you say that it is. It is not my reality. I do not believe that a serial killer that stalks and murders women has less effect on society than the person who kills a minority out of racism. It's as simple as that. Hate crimes denigrate the lives of individuals who are victims of exactly the same crimes simply because they do not belong to a protected minority. To deny that is, in my view, to deny reality and I'm hardly the only one who feels this way.
    Regardless of your reality, our govt has decided that it is through the democratic process. What you believe is at odds with the majority of society.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #209
    Dungeon Master
    Hooter Babe

    DiAnna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Northern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,701
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    I was asking a question... reread it.
    In that case, I was answering your question... reread it.

  10. #210
    Sage
    SheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,512

    Re: I was beaten, taunted for being white, Bronx man says after subway attack Read m

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I don't like "Hate crime" legislation as a general rule. A crime is a crime is a crime. However, here is a case that common sense says "Yeah, race mattered here". Sad really this requires "investigation"
    I think you're just saying it's a hate crime because a white was a victim.

Page 21 of 23 FirstFirst ... 111920212223 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •