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More than 200 D.C. teachers fired

Dude, for real, how far up inside your ass do you reach to pull out **** like this? You have no due process rights with regards to employment!!! It's a right to work state, meaning you have a right to work for anyone, and anyone has a right to fire you. YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO A JOB!! LOL Damn dude, you aren't this dense. I know you aren't.

Due process exists in our LEGAL system, not in our employment system!!! Your boss can walk in (unless you are part of a union, which is the problem) to your office tomorrow and tell you you are fired and not give a reason. Or give a stupid reason (hair too short, legs too long, ass too big) as long as it's not discriminating on race, gender, etc, you're outta there. Nothing you can do but cry to the moon. You do NOT have a right to a job, and when you FINALLY realize this, I would assume your replies with regards to employment would show a little more education on the subject.

If you want to pay someone to try to get you your job back that's on you, but damn the person who has someone paid for by the taxpayer to fight for a non-existent right to a job. That's downright criminal behavior.

Looks like someone doesn't understand contract law.

The law doesn't require any employer to give their employees due process before terminating them, but if the employer signs a legally binding contract to do so, they MUST comply with those terms.
 
There is a great thing called Google. I was a staff member for a GOP councilman years ago. I am speaking from first hand knowledge.

You should use it then.

Sorry, but in debate, personal anecdotes which cannot be verified are useless and not even considered. Its too easy to fabricate stuff like that.
 
...I believe whatever my trusted news source tells me and have never gone to the teachers' organizations and teachers' unions to hear their side of the story because I love that privatization, conservative, bad teacher myth plate of BS.

Any employees should be fire-able for any reason. Or no reason at all. No hearings. No due process. Pack up your bags and get out.
No one has a right to a job.
 
Any employees should be fire-able for any reason. Or no reason at all. No hearings. No due process. Pack up your bags and get out.
No one has a right to a job.

No employee should be fire-able for any reason or no reason at all. Hearings and due process should be required.
 
Paying a union teacher 50k is extortion. Paying a non-union military supplier 5k for a hammer is capitalism at its' best
Well, there you go again. The hammer was $600. And some stupid bureaucrat, of the same type you want me to turn my life over to for ObamaCare or for curing global warming, created a requirements specification so inane, so complicated, so foolish that the contractor had little choice but to develop tests to prove the hammer could meet the specification. And that is why it cost $600. Not $5000 as you mention above.
 
Well, there you go again. The hammer was $600. And some stupid bureaucrat, of the same type you want me to turn my life over to for ObamaCare or for curing global warming, created a requirements specification so inane, so complicated, so foolish that the contractor had little choice but to develop tests to prove the hammer could meet the specification. And that is why it cost $600. Not $5000 as you mention above.

$600 hammers prove that capitalism works, and the govt is beholden to unions!!!
 
$600 hammers prove that capitalism works, and the govt is beholden to unions!!!
I do not believe you are foolish. Nor do I believe that you are stupid. But this statement makes me begin to question my beliefs.
Six hundred dollar hammers prove that bureaucrats can be lazy, stupid, ineffective or some combination...
Public sector unions should be outlawed because the opportunities for corrupt unions to mingle with corrupt democrats (and occasionally a corrupt republican) is just too great to ignore.
 
I do not believe you are foolish. Nor do I believe that you are stupid. But this statement makes me begin to question my beliefs.
Six hundred dollar hammers prove that bureaucrats can be lazy, stupid, ineffective or some combination...
Public sector unions should be outlawed because the opportunities for corrupt unions to mingle with corrupt democrats (and occasionally a corrupt republican) is just too great to ignore.

When the govt pays $500 for a hammer, it's inefficiency. When the govt pays 50k for a teacher, it's proof that politicians are beholden to unions :roll:

Non-union corporations should be outlawed because the opportunities for corrupt non-union corporate execs to mingle with corrupt repubs (and occasionally a corrupt dem) is just too great to ignore
 
in a private sector negotiation the bargaining is at least honest

in public sector-often those "bargaining" with the unions have been put into office by those unions

another inaccurate statement you are unable to back up with facts
try again, squire
 
the issue was what good does a public union create given that its members are under the full protection of all of the relevant laws. If the public has decided that a teacher should make say 45K a year and the union demands 50K is not the Union acting contrary to the wishes of the public?

for someone who professes to be a labor law attorney your ignorance of the labor unions and the extent of their authority is quite profound

you write that salary example as if the unions get what they seek, unilaterally, without the assent of management
anyone with any modicum of knowledge about unions is aware that management must agree to the salary being sought before that becomes a part of the labor-management contract
 
what a laugh
management spends millions to fire seven teachers and you point to teacher incompetence
ignoring that of management


It cost millions of dollars to fire those teachers..........because The Teacher's Union and Democrats spend millions of dollars PROTECTING BAD TEACHERS! Its what they do.........

Management in the Real Non-Union Slob World works like this...........YOUR FIRED! Clean out your desk, vacate the premises, and help yourself to a cup of Get The **** Out........Total Costs for Firing = $0.00
.
.......and you have the gall to blame this on a "management" issue.......good gawd......
.
 
Thoughts?
Comments?
Response?

I'm all for holding teachers accountable, but I really don't like this trend of basing their performance evaluations significantly on test scores. This has the effect of forcing teachers to focus significantly on teaching specifically what is on the test, at the expense of a broader and more nuanced approach to teaching. American students increasingly aren't taught how to think, just how to parrot the correct rote responses on standardized tests. That's a bad thing.
 
It cost millions of dollars to fire those teachers..........because The Teacher's Union and Democrats spend millions of dollars PROTECTING BAD TEACHERS! Its what they do.........

Mgmt agreed to those contracts. Even in places where republicans are running the govt.

Management in the Real Non-Union Slob World works like this...........YOUR FIRED! Clean out your desk, vacate the premises, and help yourself to a cup of Get The **** Out........Total Costs for Firing = $0.00
.

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Not if the employer signs a contract obligating the employer to give the employee due process before termination.

.......and you have the gall to blame this on a "management" issue.......good gawd......

I forgot that mgmt is not responsible for the contracts it signs. Please forgive me :roll:
 
I'm all for holding teachers accountable, but I really don't like this trend of basing their performance evaluations significantly on test scores. This has the effect of forcing teachers to focus significantly on teaching specifically what is on the test, at the expense of a broader and more nuanced approach to teaching. American students increasingly aren't taught how to think, just how to parrot the correct rote responses on standardized tests. That's a bad thing.

It also encourages the schools mgmt to cheat on the test scores, and to help the students cheat on the test.

Hechinger Report | High-stakes tests and cheating: An inevitable combination?

A simmering scandal in Atlanta over cheating on standardized tests came to a head this week as state investigators released a report that found in the city’s schools “an enterprise where unethical—and potentially illegal—behavior pierced every level of the bureaucracy,” according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution. The scandal follows closely on the heels of a USA Today investigation into possible cheating in the Washington, D.C. schools. The Hechinger Report talked with Robert Tobias, director of the Center for Research on Teaching and Learning at NYU’s Steinhardt School of Culture, Education and Human Development, and former head of assessment and accountability for the New York City schools, about whether high-stakes testing inevitably leads to cheating, and how it might be avoided.
 
It cost millions of dollars to fire those teachers..........because The Teacher's Union and Democrats spend millions of dollars PROTECTING BAD TEACHERS! Its what they do.........

Management in the Real Non-Union Slob World works like this...........YOUR FIRED! Clean out your desk, vacate the premises, and help yourself to a cup of Get The **** Out........Total Costs for Firing = $0.00
.
.......and you have the gall to blame this on a "management" issue.......good gawd......
.

so wrong
the system employed attorneys and still out sourced the termination of those teachers
as an active unionist, i well understand what is needed to terminate a union employee
first, there must be evidence that the employee engaged in wrongdoing
so, management needs to document it
next, the contract terms regarding termination procedures must be followed. this is the due process imposed by the contract, which provisions were negotiated and agreed by labor AND management
that's all that is needed. gather evidence and follow the agreed upon process
but management is too frequently too inept
they fail to document the employee's violation
they fail to follow the process
and as we can see, they fail in general ... and so do 30% of our kids, in a school system being mismanaged
 
occasionally a corrupt dem---LOL!

how bout the time mr samuels, ge's internationally famous tax attorney, "dropped to one knee and pretended to beg" none other than CHARLIE RANGEL, sitting chair of WAYS AND MEANS, for the extension of that treasured tax extension

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/economy/25tax.html?pagewanted=all

that'd be BEFORE barack the slasher hussein appointed ge's CHIEF EXEC OFFICER as his JOBS CZAR

you remember mr immelt

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/21/obama-picks-jeffrey-immel-ge-jobs-overseas_n_812502.html
 
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I forgot that mgmt is not responsible for the contracts it signs.

management is unilaterally tearing up public contracts in detroit, massachusetts, chicago, connecticut...

you just can't trust those big govt promises
 
If it turns out they were truly incompetent, I have no problem with them being let go. From the article, it's hard to determine if this is indeed the case.

However, generally speaking, removing an incompetent teacher makes much more sense than the common practice today of cutting teacher's already substandard compensation because of a state budget stressed by revenue losses due to the Bush Recession
 
The District fired 206 teachers for poor performance Friday, the second year in a row it has dismissed significant numbers of educators for sub-par work in the classroom.


They were dismissed for poor scores on the evaluation system known as IMPACT, which grades teachers on five 30-minute classroom observations and their compliance with nine broad standards. These include ability to express course content clearly, teach students with differing skill levels and manage time effectively. For some teachers, half of their appraisal is contingent on whether students meet predicted growth targets on standardized tests.


Large-scale dismissals of teachers for job performance is still a rarity in big city schools, experts say. Collective bargaining agreements and often-cumbersome appeals processes, combined with a reluctance on the part of officials to confront politically potent unions, have limited firings.


Read more at: More than 200 D.C. teachers fired - D.C. Schools Insider - The Washington Post

Thoughts?
Comments?
Response?

I think this is a good start …. good effective teachers are an invaluable asset to this country. They should be well rewarded for their contribution, and this program does that …(Another 663 teachers (16 percent) were rated highly effective, making them eligible for performance bonuses of up to $25,000.)

If you read the article given, those fired appear to be no loss to the education of our children (Of the 206 fired, officials said 65 were rated ineffective this year and 141 were judged minimally effective for the second consecutive year. Others were let go for licensure problems or other issues.) and will allow for teachers to be hired that will be more effective … The simple fact of knowing your performance is subject to review, is like giving teachers notice that poor results aren't going to be tolerated any longer

Is this an end all for our education system? No, but it's a beginning, a step in the right direction, one that rewards excellent teachers … and gets rid of bad teachers .. to my way of thinking, a program such that this should be applauded, while at the same time understanding that this is but a single step, in improving our system.
 
It also encourages the schools mgmt to cheat on the test scores, and to help the students cheat on the test.

Hechinger Report | High-stakes tests and cheating: An inevitable combination?

Just for once I would like to see a liberal get real .. . rather then make excuses … IMO, it's just this type of attitude that promotes and encourages such actions.

A test does not encourage cheating .. period. How asinine can you get. I am so sick and tired of this that I could scream..... liberals like yourself only help to promote these actions.... Ohh the boogie man is the test …. not those that try to cheat their way around it. Any one that tries to promote such a thing is a very weak minded morally corrupt individual.

Nothing promotes stealing, nothing promotes cheating, nothing promotes not following the rules …. except weak minded corrupt individuals that would rather try to circumvent the rules to promote themselves and nothing else.
 
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