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Thread: Tea party to GOP: We could make 'examples' of you over debt ceiling

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    Re: Tea party to GOP: We could make 'examples' of you over debt ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    Good grief, I thought you were talking about the Democrats in Congress now.

    Who cares what was done years ago - we're talking about now, and if the Reps don't agree on raising the debt ceiling, we're all in trouble.


    Excuse me, the Republicans won't accept anything that even suggests at raising taxes on the wealthy, who can afford it, but insist in cutting benefits from the middle class and below, who can least afford it. What ingnoramus that is not wealthy supports that action? Why would Democrats go against what the majority of Americans want, and that is to leave Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid alone?




    The President's bill, as well as the Democrat's bill is not accepted by the Reps because they suggest ending the tax cuts for the wealthy, and the Reps are afraid of Nordquist. I don't know what Nordquist has done to get them all in line with his wishes, but talk about Sheeple.
    Democrats lied about balancing the budget in the 1980s and in the 1990s. There is absolutely no reason to believe them now. Where is the budget proposal by the Dems that has details?

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    Re: Tea party to GOP: We could make 'examples' of you over debt ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Doing balance transfers, and or paying off your household finances by increasing your credit is not a sound plan is it? Is that what you do YS? Nope, what sane people do is prioritize. They do without, not more of.
    The problem with most righties is that they try to equate the government's finances with their own household finances. It doesn't work that way. It is plain idiocy to try and compare the government's finances to one's own household finances.

    We know that we cannot run up our household debt forever and that we have to tighten our belts when our credit cards are maxed out. We can borrow to enhance current spending, but eventually we have to sacrifice spending to pay the debts back. We intuitively understand that we cannot indefinitely live beyond our means. Neoliberals draw an analogy between the two, because they know we will judge government deficits as reckless. But the government is not a big household. It can consistently spend more than its revenue because it creates the currency. Whereas households have to save (spend less than they earn) to spend more in the future, governments can purchase whatever they like whenever there are goods and services for sale in the currency they issue. Budget surpluses provide no greater capacity to governments to meet future needs, nor do budget deficits erode that capacity. Governments always have the capacity to spend in their own currencies.

    Why, then, do governments borrow? Under the gold standard governments had to borrow to spend more than their tax revenue. But since 1971 that necessity has lapsed. Now governments issue debt to match their deficits only as a result of pressure placed on them by neoliberals to restrict their spending. Conservatives know that rising public debt can be politically manipulated and demonized, and they do this to put a brake on government spending. But there is no operational necessity to issue debt in a fiat monetary system. Interestingly, conservatives are schizoid on the question of public debt: public borrowing provides corporate welfare in the form of risk-free income flows to the rich because it allows them to safely park funds in bonds during uncertain times and provides a risk-free benchmark on which to price other, riskier financial products. The fact that bond yields have remained low throughout the latest economic crisis (reflecting strong demand for public debt) tells you that the parasitic bond markets do not buy the neoliberal rhetoric. They know that national governments (outside the Eurozone) have no solvency risk.
    Beyond Austerity | The Nation




    Ya know, I wonder how we can quantify 40 years of liberal's teaching our students, and not knowing the simple axiom above, is proof positive that we're doomed...
    We're doomed mostly because of conservative ideology - you're assumptions are wrong, so no wonder you think you are doomed.
    Unfreaking believeable the level of insane attitudes coming from the left these days?? Stay away from the NYT, and the alphabet networks.. You're not getting the straight dope.. All your getting is dope!
    The only ones getting duped are the righties that watch Faux News and listen to Rush Limbaugh. The insane attitudes are the ones provided by looneys such as Michelle Bachmann and that idiot Palin, who know little about the economy and how it works and try to apply their bandaid solutions. I guess they have most righties duped, it sure appears that way.



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
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    Re: Tea party to GOP: We could make 'examples' of you over debt ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Democrats lied about balancing the budget in the 1980s and in the 1990s. There is absolutely no reason to believe them now.
    Bush and Republicans lied for 8 years - there is no reason to believe Republicans now.


    Where is the budget proposal by the Dems that has details?
    Why should the Democrats spend time and energy coming up with a proposal they know will go nowhere? The Dems do not have a big enough majority in the Senate to even get a bill on the floor, and we know the GOP will not allow it to, they all vote lock-step. The Republicans will not agree on anything that slightly suggests eliminating tax cuts for the wealthy (that can afford it) or doesn't take away programs that the middle-class and below rely on - we've seen them in action.

    What I don't understand is why Republicans wasted time and effort on a proposal they know is not going anywhere? Unless they finally come to realize that most Americans opt for eliminating tax cuts for the wealthy and leaving Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security alone, Republicans are only working to benefit their supporters, the wealthy. When are the middle-class Republicans going to catch on?



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





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    Re: Tea party to GOP: We could make 'examples' of you over debt ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    Bush and Republicans lied for 8 years - there is no reason to believe Republicans now.

    Why should the Democrats spend time and energy coming up with a proposal they know will go nowhere? The Dems do not have a big enough majority in the Senate to even get a bill on the floor, and we know the GOP will not allow it to, they all vote lock-step. The Republicans will not agree on anything that slightly suggests eliminating tax cuts for the wealthy (that can afford it) or doesn't take away programs that the middle-class and below rely on - we've seen them in action.

    What I don't understand is why Republicans wasted time and effort on a proposal they know is not going anywhere? Unless they finally come to realize that most Americans opt for eliminating tax cuts for the wealthy and leaving Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security alone, Republicans are only working to benefit their supporters, the wealthy. When are the middle-class Republicans going to catch on?
    Fine, we had lies in the 1980s, 1990s by Dems and in the 21st Century by Bush. I'll lt you tell us what the Bush lies were.

    Boehner has just told the press that the President reneged on an agreement for tax revenues. They had agreed on cutting the # of tax brackets and lowering the rates for the brackets and doing away with at least some deductions. Then yesterday, President Obama began to seek over $400 billion in new taxes. The lies continue.

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    Re: Tea party to GOP: We could make 'examples' of you over debt ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    The problem with most righties is that they try to equate the government's finances with their own household finances. It doesn't work that way. It is plain idiocy to try and compare the government's finances to one's own household finances.

    We know that we cannot run up our household debt forever and that we have to tighten our belts when our credit cards are maxed out. We can borrow to enhance current spending, but eventually we have to sacrifice spending to pay the debts back. We intuitively understand that we cannot indefinitely live beyond our means. Neoliberals draw an analogy between the two, because they know we will judge government deficits as reckless. But the government is not a big household. It can consistently spend more than its revenue because it creates the currency. Whereas households have to save (spend less than they earn) to spend more in the future, governments can purchase whatever they like whenever there are goods and services for sale in the currency they issue. Budget surpluses provide no greater capacity to governments to meet future needs, nor do budget deficits erode that capacity. Governments always have the capacity to spend in their own currencies.

    Why, then, do governments borrow? Under the gold standard governments had to borrow to spend more than their tax revenue. But since 1971 that necessity has lapsed. Now governments issue debt to match their deficits only as a result of pressure placed on them by neoliberals to restrict their spending. Conservatives know that rising public debt can be politically manipulated and demonized, and they do this to put a brake on government spending. But there is no operational necessity to issue debt in a fiat monetary system. Interestingly, conservatives are schizoid on the question of public debt: public borrowing provides corporate welfare in the form of risk-free income flows to the rich because it allows them to safely park funds in bonds during uncertain times and provides a risk-free benchmark on which to price other, riskier financial products. The fact that bond yields have remained low throughout the latest economic crisis (reflecting strong demand for public debt) tells you that the parasitic bond markets do not buy the neoliberal rhetoric. They know that national governments (outside the Eurozone) have no solvency risk.
    Beyond Austerity | The Nation

    yeah...... so.....

    we have a 1.5 ish trillion dollar deficit. how about you go ask your average zimbabwean how life is under this idiot's proposal.

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    Re: Tea party to GOP: We could make 'examples' of you over debt ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    Bush and Republicans lied for 8 years - there is no reason to believe Republicans now.
    :

    Why should the Democrats spend time and energy coming up with a proposal they know will go nowhere? The Dems do not have a big enough majority in the Senate to even get a bill on the floor, and we know the GOP will not allow it to, they all vote lock-step. The Republicans will not agree on anything that slightly suggests eliminating tax cuts for the wealthy (that can afford it) or doesn't take away programs that the middle-class and below rely on - we've seen them in action.

    What I don't understand is why Republicans wasted time and effort on a proposal they know is not going anywhere?
    1. it's called "leadership". you have to provide direction.
    2. it's the friggin law.

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    Re: Tea party to GOP: We could make 'examples' of you over debt ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yeah...... so.....

    we have a 1.5 ish trillion dollar deficit. how about you go ask your average zimbabwean how life is under this idiot's proposal.
    You will probably find out on your own if the idiot Republicans aren't able to agree to end the tax cuts for the rich and raise the debt ceiling.



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





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    Re: Tea party to GOP: We could make 'examples' of you over debt ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    From CNN:



    Tea party to GOP: We could make 'examples' of you over debt ceiling - CNN.com

    That some elements of the Tea Party seek no debt ceiling hike whatsoever and are pressing Republicans toward that end represents another possible barrier to a deal to hike the debt ceiling.
    The republican part is threatening itself? That's funny.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Tea party to GOP: We could make 'examples' of you over debt ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    :
    Back at ya!



    1. it's called "leadership". you have to provide direction.
    It's called common sense. The Republicans have wasted valuable time and effort on a bill they knew would not pass. Brilliant leadership?


    2. it's the friggin law.
    It's the law for Congress to pass a budget - it doesn't have to be a Democrat submitted budget, or a Republican submitted budget. It doesn't even have to be the President's budget. It has to be one that is agreed by the majority in Congress, and so far all we are getting from the Republican side is cut all the programs that help the middle class but don't touch the tax cuts to the wealthy. It's plain to see which side they are on.



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





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    Re: Tea party to GOP: We could make 'examples' of you over debt ceiling

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    How could they get as far as they got, and remain SO freakin clueless?
    I believe the first bunch of Patriots who called themselves the Tea Party have been co-opted by a dew radicals and freaks and the Obamedia flock to quote the weirdos.

    There is no longer a Tea Party in my mind.

    We as Americans need to return to the basics set down for us 235 years ago, and put the Nation before party of any kind.

    We need leadership that can convey the message that it's about "We the People" not us the party.

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