• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obama: Public is 'sold' on tax increases in a debt-ceiling deal

Gravity is not a theory, it's a law. There's no Theory of Gravitivity.
 
Last edited:
a chart better demonstrating that (limited) elasticity (would have given me more than 5 images):

Federal-Personal-Income-Tax-Collections.JPG
 
The difference between the theory of evolution and "Hauser's Law" is one predicts accurately, one has failed to do so. Not only did your answer not actually answer my original question, you are buying into a failed hypothesis that does not match observation.
 
cpwill said:
a chart better demonstrating that (limited) elasticity (would have given me more than 5 images):

Federal-Personal-Income-Tax-Collections.JPG
Click to expand...

I really don't like charts that are not up to date and imply certain beliefs without the least bit of consideration of other factors e.g. women entering the workforce, technological improvement, international capital mobility (specifically in Asia), etc....
 
Last edited:
Redress said:
Uh, no.Since the plan calls for a mixture of cuts and tax increases, he actually has a much larger percentage actually agreeing with him. It's not 80 %, but it's much more than 20 %.
Click to expand...

Uh, no. Since his plan calls for a mixture of IMMEDIATE tax hikes and yet a mixture of cuts over more than TEN YEARS that are severely back dated to occur primarily on the far end, he does not have the much larger percentage actually agreeing with him. Obama's plan is primarily focused around tax increase, putting him in line with at best 11% of the people in that poll.

Increasing taxes on people immediately and cutting spending over 10 years in a primarily back loaded system is not doing so "equally".
 
gallup, wednesday:

Only 11 percent of voters want tax hikes to be used as the main way of closing the deficit, a new poll Wednesday found.

Seven percent of those surveyed by Gallup said that mostly tax increases, along with some spending cuts, would be the best way to close the deficit. Four percent of Americans say that only tax hikes should be used to cut the deficit.

Voters expressed significantly more support for spending cuts.

One in five Americans surveyed for the Gallup poll say they think the deficit is best cut down by reducing federal spending alone, while 30 percent say that the best strategy for deficit reduction would employ mostly cuts and some tax hikes. Thirty-two percent of those surveyed said they would like to see a mix of spending cuts and tax hikes.
Click to expand...

Poll: Tax changes unpopular solution to debt - Jennifer Epstein - POLITICO.com

11% told america's most prestigious pollster deficit reduction should come either completely or mostly from tax hikes, compared to 50% who felt balance should come completely or mostly from cuts
 
Zyphlin said:
Uh, no. Since his plan calls for a mixture of IMMEDIATE tax hikes and yet a mixture of cuts over more than TEN YEARS that are severely back dated to occur primarily on the far end, he does not have the much larger percentage actually agreeing with him. Obama's plan is primarily focused around tax increase, putting him in line with at best 11% of the people in that poll.

Increasing taxes on people immediately and cutting spending over 10 years in a primarily back loaded system is not doing so "equally".
Click to expand...

I really don't believe (even hope) that tax increases will really materialize. Why would Obama extend the Bush tax cuts only to increase taxes at this point? He is far too politically calculated to make such a move. IMHO, the whole revenue raisers is just a (legit) counter to the criticism over the deficit.
 
Zyphlin said:
Uh, no. Since his plan calls for a mixture of IMMEDIATE tax hikes and yet a mixture of cuts over more than TEN YEARS that are severely back dated to occur primarily on the far end, he does not have the much larger percentage actually agreeing with him. Obama's plan is primarily focused around tax increase, putting him in line with at best 11% of the people in that poll.

Increasing taxes on people immediately and cutting spending over 10 years in a primarily back loaded system is not doing so "equally".
Click to expand...

Uh, no. Since you are going way beyond the nature of the poll, you cannot then use the poll results to back your claim.
 
The Prof said:
gallup, wednesday:



Poll: Tax changes unpopular solution to debt - Jennifer Epstein - POLITICO.com

11% told america's most prestigious pollster deficit reduction should come either completely or mostly from tax hikes, compared to 50% who felt balance should come completely or mostly from cuts
Click to expand...

Or over 70 % feel that tax increases should be part of the deficit reduction strategy. We have discussed this poll at length already in this thread, you might actually read instead of just dropping links with misleading claims.
 
Redress said:
Or over 70 % feel that tax increases should be part of the deficit reduction strategy.
Click to expand...

then 96% feel that cuts must be part of the answer

no, the point made by GALLUP was that 11% of americans said that tax increases should be the primary approach ("the main way") to deficit reduction, whereas 50% felt the same way about CUTS

you might actually read instead of just dropping links with misleading claims
Click to expand...

awful smarmy, rather immoderate

oh well
 
Redress said:
Uh, no. Since you are going way beyond the nature of the poll, you cannot then use the poll results to back your claim.
Click to expand...

Not at all. The Poll asks if people think it should be dealt with EQUALLY with spending cuts and tax increases.

Doing all of one thing IMMEDIATELY and doing one thing over 10 years largely backloaded is not an equal method of dealing with the issue.

Would you be peddling this same argument if it was reversed and Republicans were saying we need to cut 4 Trillion from the budget immediately and that we'd raise taxes by 10% over the next 15 years with a .1% increase for the first 10 years and and 9% over the 5 after? Would they be proposing a solution that is "equally" dealing with it through tax hikes and spending cuts because they happen to be doing both even though the majority of the tax cuts don't come until almost 10 years after the fact?
 
Zyphlin said:
Not at all. The Poll asks if people think it should be dealt with EQUALLY with spending cuts and tax increases.

Doing all of one thing IMMEDIATELY and doing one thing over 10 years largely backloaded is not an equal method of dealing with the issue.

Would you be peddling this same argument if it was reversed and Republicans were saying we need to cut 4 Trillion from the budget immediately and that we'd raise taxes by 10% over the next 15 years with a .1% increase for the first 10 years and and 9% over the 5 after? Would they be proposing a solution that is "equally" dealing with it through tax hikes and spending cuts because they happen to be doing both even though the majority of the tax cuts don't come until almost 10 years after the fact?
Click to expand...

No, that was not the question asked. This was:

"as you may know, Congress can reduce the federal budget deficit by cutting spending, raising taxes, or a combination of the two. Ideally, how would you like to see Congress attempt to reduce the federal budget deficit(and the five options are rotated here)"
Click to expand...

Only one option said equally, and you are assuming people take that to mean it as you do.
 
One option said equally. 32% of people agreed with that. One said mostly with SPENDING cuts, 30% said that. One said ONLY with spending cuts, 20% agreed with that

That is 82% of the people in the poll seemingly disagreeing with the Presidents strategy, which seems to be mostly tax increases with some spending cuts that are primarily back ended 10 years down the line.

Am I taking it to mean it as I suggest I do? Yes. Which is the same argument YOU must use to prove somehow that the President was correct (in that Mr. V was incorrect) in suggesting that a Poll suggests that 80% want "taxes raised" as an implication of support for his plan. Support for taxes being raised IN CONJUNCTION with an equal amount of focus on spending cuts does not equate to that group agreeing with tax hikes in a general sense which is the way the President suggested it.

So if Mr. V is wrong due to the logic you used, then Obama too is wrong using that same standard you seek to apply.
 
Last edited:
I think folks should review this website called "FastNotes". The linked portion of the site are like online "Tweets" directly to Speaker Boehner. The comments cover a variety of issues, but many of the more recent comments center around the debt ceiling debate. I think people would be quite surprised at what the people are saying.

To help folks get an idea of how it works, there are 3 columns: Left = poster's lean about the comment they make, "Negative, Positive, Suggestin". Center = poster's comments. Right = how viewers rate the comments overall.

I point this out so readers will understand that just because the poster may rate his/her comment as "Positive", that may not be the way the viewers see that particular point of view. For example, the following comment was rated by the posters as "Positive":

Repealing ObamaCare
save the best health care in the world repeal obama care. my cost is already going up
Click to expand...

But when you review how viewers rated the poster's comments, they gave it: "2 Agrees, 4 Disagrees"

Point here is to determine how the people see things their peers address to the House Speaker. It's very interesting trying to gauge how folks think on things, but from reading the commentary it's clear to me that not everyone is happy with how Boehner is leading his party right now.
 
Last edited:
Redress said:
The difference between the theory of evolution and "Hauser's Law" is one predicts accurately, one has failed to do so. Not only did your answer not actually answer my original question, you are buying into a failed hypothesis that does not match observation.
Click to expand...

nice. so is that your way of saying you really don't have any response based on any kind of evidence? :)



look, I can do it to:

:sticks fingers in ears: nuuuhghuh!!!!!!!
 
Human nature is too obvious. Any pollster who ever tells you that people want tax increases, is a card-carrying liar.
 
cpwill said:
nice. so is that your way of saying you really don't have any response based on any kind of evidence? :)



look, I can do it to:

:sticks fingers in ears: nuuuhghuh!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

No evidence? Like that fact that this year and last prove the "Law" wrong? When a hypothesis does not match observation, the hypothesis is failed.
 
Boo Radley said:
We can work together to solve large problems. And we can use government to do that. :coffeepap
Click to expand...

By asking "the rich" to pay?

The President is pitting American against American, which is typical of leftist class warfare everywhere.
 
Grant said:
By asking "the rich" to pay?

The President is pitting American against American, which is typical of leftist class warfare everywhere.
Click to expand...

There's a line in a novel by King in which the judge is asked who should do the hard things in life. The answer is, the ones who can. I more more taxes than some do. It doesn't bother me. I make a fine living, and I get a lot of benefits from this country. So, stop whinning. Stop with the class warfare (that sword swings both ways you know). And work within the system we have. ;)
 
Boo Radley said:
There's a line in a novel by King in which the judge is asked who should do the hard things in life. The answer is, the ones who can. I more more taxes than some do. It doesn't bother me. I make a fine living, and I get a lot of benefits from this country. So, stop whinning. Stop with the class warfare (that sword swings both ways you know). And work within the system we have. ;)
Click to expand...

The system that is in place, and ibeing encouraged, is class warfare.

Certainly you must be aware of who pays most of the taxes in this country already and now thy are being asked to pay more, while the whimsical spending continues. The claqss warfare is already in place and is now being used as political propaganda by the President. Americans should find this unacceptable but as a sign how much the country has changed, they not only buy into the idea, the Left rallies behind it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom