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Thread: Obama: Public is 'sold' on tax increases in a debt-ceiling deal

  1. #41
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    Re: Obama: Public is 'sold' on tax increases in a debt-ceiling deal

    LOL!

    when you only control one chamber...

    it's all that can be done---SIX POINT TWO TRILLION

    in contrast, the party in power: President's budget sinks, 97-0 - TheHill.com

    two and a half years and counting since the party in power in the white house and the us senate passed a budget---in times like these

    leadership, anyone?

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    Re: Obama: Public is 'sold' on tax increases in a debt-ceiling deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Your extending it to far past what I said. I was simply pointing out the flaws with MrV's post. You know, just as I do, that I disagree with the plan Obama proposes.
    Wasn't disagreeing with you that mr.v is wrong, was simply pointing out that Obama is misrepresenting the numbers as if the are support for his plan, when in reality according to that poll a better argument could be made over 80% disagree with the president

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    Re: Obama: Public is 'sold' on tax increases in a debt-ceiling deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Wasn't disagreeing with you that mr.v is wrong, was simply pointing out that Obama is misrepresenting the numbers as if the are support for his plan, when in reality according to that poll a better argument could be made over 80% disagree with the president
    Uh, no.Since the plan calls for a mixture of cuts and tax increases, he actually has a much larger percentage actually agreeing with him. It's not 80 %, but it's much more than 20 %.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Obama: Public is 'sold' on tax increases in a debt-ceiling deal

    The results:

    Only with spending cuts: 20 %
    Mostly with spending cuts 30 %
    Equally with spending cuts and tax increases: 32 %
    Mostly with tax increases: 7 %
    Only with tax increases: 4 %

    That is 73 % that favor some tax increases. By the way, this is the poll that Obama took his number from, but he just subtracted the 20 % who said spending cuts only from 100 %, which is inaccurate.

    You can spin that to say anything you want but the only honest way to intrepid those results is that 39 percent agree with what Obama stated .. thats 32% that believe equally with spending a tax increases and the 7% that believe mostly with tax increases
    .

    To make a statement that 80% of the people agree with his way of doing things . is very misleading to say the least . for someone to defend that figure .. shows how easily they will bend to kiss is ass no matter what is said .

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    Re: Obama: Public is 'sold' on tax increases in a debt-ceiling deal

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    .

    To make a statement that 80% of the people agree with his way of doing things . is very misleading to say the least . for someone to defend that figure .. shows how easily they will bend to kiss is ass no matter what is said .
    For some one who points out the flaw in the figure to be told they are defending it is kinda one of the stupider things some one could do.

    Here, let me show you the words I used to refer to Obama's use of 80 %:

    which is inaccurate.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  6. #46
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    Re: Obama: Public is 'sold' on tax increases in a debt-ceiling deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    How are you raising revenue then?
    because revenue isn't a function of tax rates - its a function of GDP.



    so you need to grow GDP. one of the quickest, least painful ways to do that is effective-rate-neutral-tax-simplification. An option so powerful and blindingly positive that everyone from Obama, to Clinton, the the Simpson-Bowles Commission, to Paul Ryan has come out in favor of it in some flavor or another.

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    Re: Obama: Public is 'sold' on tax increases in a debt-ceiling deal

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    .

    To make a statement that 80% of the people agree with his way of doing things …. is very misleading to say the least … . for someone to defend that figure .. shows how easily they will bend to kiss is ass no matter what is said .
    Misleading?

    Why is everyone pussyfooting around the fact that this man is a liar. He's been lying since he campaigned for president and he's lying now. That must be said.

    Let's not be hypocrites about this and try to cover up the truth ourselves or every honest person will become participants in this game..

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    Re: Obama: Public is 'sold' on tax increases in a debt-ceiling deal

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    because revenue isn't a function of tax rates - its a function of GDP.



    so you need to grow GDP. one of the quickest, least painful ways to do that is effective-rate-neutral-tax-simplification. An option so powerful and blindingly positive that everyone from Obama, to Clinton, the the Simpson-Bowles Commission, to Paul Ryan has come out in favor of it in some flavor or another.
    Are you still touting that failed law? First off, a law that is not experimentally proven is not a law, it's a theory at best. Second off, this year and last both disprove it. Third off, the variations in it represent hundreds of billions of dollars. Trying to claim only one factor drives revenue is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  9. #49
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    Re: Obama: Public is 'sold' on tax increases in a debt-ceiling deal

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    because revenue isn't a function of tax rates - its a function of GDP.



    so you need to grow GDP. one of the quickest, least painful ways to do that is effective-rate-neutral-tax-simplification. An option so powerful and blindingly positive that everyone from Obama, to Clinton, the the Simpson-Bowles Commission, to Paul Ryan has come out in favor of it in some flavor or another.
    Exactly right. If you want to soak the rich, don't raise taxes, get the damn economy rolling.

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    Re: Obama: Public is 'sold' on tax increases in a debt-ceiling deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Are you still touting that failed law? First off, a law that is not experimentally proven is not a law, it's a theory at best.
    you're coming out with the "theory" argument?

    okay. it's only a theory. like evolution.

    Second off, this year and last both disprove it.
    incorrect; the last three years demonstrate that when you drastically increase the size of government as a percentage of GDP, revenue drops as a percentage of GDP. Revenues themselves dropped roughly down to 2004 levels:



    Relative size of government was fairly constant throughout the period we discussed as well - averaging at a little under 20% of GDP



    but we have shot government up to 24.5% as a percent of GDP. Now, government doesn't tax itself as much as it does labor, investment, and production; so when you increase government as a size of GDP, you decrease revenue as a percent of the same. you will observe, for example, a rough inverse effect:



    Third off, the variations in it represent hundreds of billions of dollars.
    true, it's a general point that people are rational decision makers, and will move to protect their income from taxation. however, as the incentives to do so lessen, so does the amount of resources and time which people are willing to devote to that task.

    that is why you will note that after Kennedy started cutting taxes, slowly over time revenues increased as a percentage of GDP. Note that this was despite a minor increase in the size of government that was bettered by impressive reductions in tax rates. Within the trend, revenues appear to be rather elastic.

    Trying to claim only one factor drives revenue is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.
    the dominant factor in revenues is GDP, not tax rates. from there it can be driven up or down by the relative size of government, how onerous the tax rates are, and numerous other smaller factors. but those first two are the biggies if you are looking at fixing a deficit. If you want to increase revenues, increase economic growth. If you want to reduce the deficit, reduce the relative size of government.
    Last edited by cpwill; 07-17-11 at 08:17 AM.

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