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Thread: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Last time I checked, Rick Perry is a citizen of the United States. Also, politicians don't check their civil rights at the door, when they're elected. Unless Perry inacts some law, order, or legislation, he's nowhere in the neighborhood of violating the 1st Amendment.
    Yeah, you only check your rights at the door when you go through TSA.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    Even Washington was careful about his displays of faith not just in his professional life, but in his private life, as well.
    Do you view this as a careful display of faith?

    WHEREAS it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favour; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me "to recommend to the people of the United States a DAY OF PUBLICK THANKSGIVING and PRAYER, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:" NOW THEREFORE, I do recommend and assign THURSDAY, the TWENTY-SIXTH DAY of NOVEMBER next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then...
    George Washington's Thanksgiving Proclamation of 1789

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Regarding the "no law was made" and the "he has rights too and they're not checked at the door" arguments. Please go back and read the earlier posts in this thread. You're rehashing arguments that have already been dealt with.
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    Unicorns are the legitimate scientific study of biology.
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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Do you view this as a careful display of faith?


    George Washington's Thanksgiving Proclamation of 1789
    Washington signed this proclamation (he did not write it) based on a resolution passed by congress. And guess what, there was debate against it and arguments that it violated the constitution.

    Thomas Tudor Tucker (A, SC) made some pointed objections: he “thought the House had no business to interfere in a matter which did not concern them. Why should the President direct the people to do what, perhaps, they have no mind to do? They may not be inclined to return thanks for a Constitution until they have experienced that it promotes their safety and happiness. We do not yet know but they may have reason to be dissatisfied with the effects it has already produced; but whether this be so or not, it is a business with which Congress have nothing to do; it is a religious matter, and, as such, is proscribed to us.”

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I think there is much history both good and bad that has been overlooked for feel good stuff.
    I don't see any reason to believe it was overlooked for feel good stuff.

    I don't believe his general values should be taught as such. I think his farewell address is a pretty important part of history that I'd venture a guess few have ever read.
    I don't see it as that important. The only real importance is that it signaled a peaceful transition in the head of state.

    Washington was not a particularly deep thinker when it came to forms of government. His argument about parties and factions shows good intentions and incredible naivete. Parties are an inevitable part of democracy.

    Saying that the good of the country can not be seperated from a religious belief is pretty much encouraging religion. You are perfectly free to disagree just as being a citizen also he had a right to note.
    It does not encourage a specific practice of religion. It's in general and came in his farewell address. A farewell address is less an act of government than is a day of prayer proclamation. It has no power and is clearly more like a statement from a citizen than it would be if it came during his term.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    Washington signed this proclamation (he did not write it) based on a resolution passed by congress. And guess what, there was debate against it and arguments that it violated the constitution.

    Thomas Tudor Tucker (A, SC) made some pointed objections: he “thought the House had no business to interfere in a matter which did not concern them. Why should the President direct the people to do what, perhaps, they have no mind to do? They may not be inclined to return thanks for a Constitution until they have experienced that it promotes their safety and happiness. We do not yet know but they may have reason to be dissatisfied with the effects it has already produced; but whether this be so or not, it is a business with which Congress have nothing to do; it is a religious matter, and, as such, is proscribed to us.”
    I don' t doubt that a minority may have had objections... I posted it because it seems like anything but a careful display of faith. That he did not pen it himself is not terribly relevant unless his secretary had some power over him to issue a proclomation with which he did not agree. Surely Washington read it and suggested any changes he thought appropriate.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I don' t doubt that a minority may have had objections... I posted it because it seems like anything but a careful display of faith. That he did not pen it himself is not terribly relevant unless his secretary had some power over him to issue a proclomation with which he did not agree. Surely Washington read it and suggested any changes he thought appropriate.
    But again, what people have done in the past does not matter when it comes to the constitutionality of an issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    Unicorns are the legitimate scientific study of biology.
    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    By the way unicorns to science are not mythology. They can be studied by biology because they are an animal.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    But again, what people have done in the past does not matter when it comes to the constitutionality of an issue.
    That depends on your legal philosophy, no?

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    That depends on your legal philosophy, no?
    I guess... But by that same logic we shouldn't question slavery because it was supported by the founding fathers and we have been doing it for so many years.

    I also cited case law earlier in this thread which supports this.
    Last edited by SlackMaster; 07-20-11 at 09:32 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    Unicorns are the legitimate scientific study of biology.
    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    By the way unicorns to science are not mythology. They can be studied by biology because they are an animal.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    I guess... But by that same logic we shouldn't question slavery because it was supported by the founding fathers and we have been doing it for so many years.

    I also cited case law earlier in this thread which supports this.
    No, because it was abolished by the thirteenth amendment in 1865, so what happened before then does not bear the same relevance.
    Last edited by Taylor; 07-20-11 at 09:42 PM.

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