Page 40 of 46 FirstFirst ... 303839404142 ... LastLast
Results 391 to 400 of 455

Thread: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

  1. #391
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Last Seen
    03-16-12 @ 11:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    7,624

    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    So you believe that their should be one official history that every school should teach? I don't know what your point is here.
    I think there is much history both good and bad that has been overlooked for feel good stuff.

    Washington's farewell address is not the law of the land and his thoughts on general value of religion are not that important. Why should it be taught?
    I don't believe his general values should be taught as such. I think his farewell address is a pretty important part of history that I'd venture a guess few have ever read.

    Besides, that as I pointed out, it is not at all the same. Washington was giving his general opinion on the value of religion as it concerned civics. He was not using the power of his office to encourage a specific practice of religion, in this example.
    Saying that the good of the country can not be seperated from a religious belief is pretty much encouraging religion. You are perfectly free to disagree just as being a citizen also he had a right to note.

  2. #392
    Advisor SlackMaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Last Seen
    02-02-12 @ 05:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    598

    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Well, since you apparently cannot be convinced that this isn't a violation of your god, the establishment clause,.. I just have one question then..

    What are you going to do about it? Huh?
    I can be convinced that this isn't a violation of the establishment clause (The laws by which our country are governed, not my god...) by providing a secular reason for this event and by showing that it's primary purpose is not the advancement of religion. Or, Rick Perry can state that he's not there in his official government capacity and is only there as a private citizen.

    Regarding what I'll do about it...

    I'll support (financially and in other ways) organizations like the Freedom From Religion Foundation that are filing a lawsuit against him. And I will not vote for him (since I live in Texas), in any other election since he can't maintain the oath of his office which includes upholding the constitution.
    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    Unicorns are the legitimate scientific study of biology.
    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    By the way unicorns to science are not mythology. They can be studied by biology because they are an animal.

  3. #393
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Last Seen
    03-16-12 @ 11:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    7,624

    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    You always seem to argue around the edges without making any relevant points.

    It is not codified or statuory law. It is case law.
    It is not. It's a guide certain jurists use while as I note, others reject. Jurists cant just reject case law.

    Any type of law can be interepreted in different ways. So?
    But it can't be outright rejected.

    SlackMaster has made an argument that it cannot pass the first two tests. Sure, someone could interepret it differently but they would have to do so in a way that stands up to scrutiny by other courts. If they can offer no workable precedent then their interpretation will be discarded. Do you have some sort of viable interpretation that differs?
    And a proclamation of prayer by a government official has withstood that scrutiny.

  4. #394
    Advisor SlackMaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Last Seen
    02-02-12 @ 05:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    598

    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    And a proclamation of prayer by a government official has withstood that scrutiny.
    Well... that's not entirely true. It was at one point ruled unconstitutional. That ruling has since been overturned.

    There are some that question the Lemon Test, but it is still in use as of today. Some rulings side with prayer, some rulings side against prayer (as you've shown in previous posts) but they still used this measuring stick "the lemon test" to determine what stays and what goes.
    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    Unicorns are the legitimate scientific study of biology.
    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    By the way unicorns to science are not mythology. They can be studied by biology because they are an animal.

  5. #395
    Sage
    Caine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-05-17 @ 01:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    23,336

    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    They figured just that. That is what this is about. They want to draw out those bothered by such displays and hold them up for attack. You don't honestly think these governors are stupid enough to believe that praying for rain is going to work? You underestimate them.

    Our founders considered it. Both Madison and Jefferson were very concerned about statements of faith from agents of the state. Jefferson avoided them. Madison repudiated legislative chaplains and national days of prayer after retiring from public life based on experience. Even Washington was careful about his displays of faith not just in his professional life, but in his private life, as well.
    You may speculate all you wish.
    I can speculate too...

    I speculate that they didn't think people would get offended by it... and that they were doing it to help bring some hope to their constituents that did have faith in a higher power that they can have some say on the matter... that they have some power left to change the course of the weather...
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  6. #396
    Sage
    Caine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-05-17 @ 01:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    23,336

    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    I can be convinced that this isn't a violation of the establishment clause (The laws by which our country are governed, not my god...) by providing a secular reason for this event and by showing that it's primary purpose is not the advancement of religion. Or, Rick Perry can state that he's not there in his official government capacity and is only there as a private citizen.

    Regarding what I'll do about it...

    I'll support (financially and in other ways) organizations like the Freedom From Religion Foundation that are filing a lawsuit against him. And I will not vote for him (since I live in Texas), in any other election since he can't maintain the oath of his office which includes upholding the constitution.
    Or... you know.... you could just ignore his request since he obviously wasn't talking to you..... .. You know... it wouldn't be that hard....
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  7. #397
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Last Seen
    03-16-12 @ 11:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    7,624

    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    Well... that's not entirely true. It was at one point ruled unconstitutional. That ruling has since been overturned.
    It's something every or nearly every president has done and not likely to ever be overturned.

    There are some that question the Lemon Test, but it is still in use as of today.
    Yes it is.

    Some rulings side with prayer, some rulings side against prayer (as you've shown in previous posts) but they still used this measuring stick "the lemon test" to determine what stays and what goes.
    *Some* use it.

  8. #398
    Sage
    Caine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-05-17 @ 01:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    23,336

    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Im still waiting for someone to show what law was created respecting an establishment of religion.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  9. #399
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,461

    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    It's guaranteed to citizens. "The government" of which Governor Rick Perry is acting on behalf of, does not.
    Last time I checked, Rick Perry is a citizen of the United States. Also, politicians don't check their civil rights at the door, when they're elected. Unless Perry inacts some law, order, or legislation, he's nowhere in the neighborhood of violating the 1st Amendment.

  10. #400
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    Well... that's not entirely true. It was at one point ruled unconstitutional. That ruling has since been overturned.

    There are some that question the Lemon Test, but it is still in use as of today. Some rulings side with prayer, some rulings side against prayer (as you've shown in previous posts) but they still used this measuring stick "the lemon test" to determine what stays and what goes.
    I question the carte blanche use of the Lemon Test in the absence of government force.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

Page 40 of 46 FirstFirst ... 303839404142 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •