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Thread: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Yes...the same lame retort to the same mindless...THIS time...by golly THIS time it must be MANMADE!!! We dont care that climate change and drought is a historical occurrence...THIS time...blame the humans!!!

    Every time you post there is like circus music going off in the background.
    The problem I have with this sort of attitude is that it's pretty much exactly the same as those who claim the environmental changes are all due to humans. There's nothing wrong with trying to figure out what sort of impact we have (and it's above 0, below 100) and finding ways to mitigate those effects. Though very likely you'll never get it to zero anyway. I don't really like how this part of science has become political because it starts to distort the science and people start claiming this or that and trying to emphasize or play off certain aspects of the data. Humans are remarkable animals, and in the very short time we've been on this planet we've come to dominate it. Only a fool would say that we don't have an impact on the environment; locally and globally. But there are also long standing climate dynamics as well for we have seen extreme shifts in the earth's climate over long periods of time. So as climate changes, there are components which are natural and components which are man made.

    There have been droughts in the past, ice ages too. Weather patterns change, temps change, etc. That doesn't mean that humans can't or have not had an effect.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    I know this wasn't directed at me, but I live in Texas.

    Regardless, to suggest that he can't comment on it, is in my opinion, unfounded. I think they have the right to comment on whatever they want.
    My response to him was because he told others that they should just "STFU". As such its perfectly valid to tell him the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    This argument was made earlier in the thread and refuted. A law does not have to be made for there to be an establishment clause violation. Think "prayer in school". There is plenty of case law to back this up as well.
    Prayer in schools are allowed so long as it is not done or set up by teachers. I agree with that part. However there is a difference between the two. A school environment is for teaching and as such allowing teachers to give prayer is in effect teaching children about religion. Which effectively foists peoples religion upon others, which violates a persons right to practice a particular religion or to not practice a religion. A govenor asking people to pray is not teaching anyone and as such does not foist anything onto anybody else. All the people have to do with the govenor is to shut off the TV or ignore what he says. A student however is not allowed that luxury.
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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Prayer in schools are allowed so long as it is not done or set up by teachers. I agree with that part. However there is a difference between the two. A school environment is for teaching and as such allowing teachers to give prayer is in effect teaching children about religion. Which effectively foists peoples religion upon others, which violates a persons right to practice a particular religion or to not practice a religion. A govenor asking people to pray is not teaching anyone and as such does not foist anything onto anybody else. All the people have to do with the govenor is to shut off the TV or ignore what he says. A student however is not allowed that luxury.
    My reason for citing "prayer in schools" was not to equate it to this situation, but to show that government entities do not have to make a law for it to be an establishment clause violation. Schools weren't trying to make a law saying you could pray, but teacher were leading prayer. It was a violation.

    This directly refutes the argument that the establishment clause only applies to laws.

    I said it before on this thread...

    Whether or not you agree with the prayer, whether or not its compulsory or voluntary, whether or not it's a "big deal", whether or not its a teaching environment... doesn't matter.

    The only thing that matters is that he's there in an official governmental capacity as "Governor" Rick Perry (not private citizen Rick Perry) for the primary purpose of promoting religion over non-religion and specifically Christianity over other religions.

    That is a clear violation of the establishment clause.

    I'll agree that the "prayer in schools" situation is a more egregious violation due to the fact that students weren't given a choice, but that doesn't matter. Teachers can't even lead a voluntary prayer.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The problem I have with this sort of attitude is that it's pretty much exactly the same as those who claim the environmental changes are all due to humans. There's nothing wrong with trying to figure out what sort of impact we have (and it's above 0, below 100) and finding ways to mitigate those effects. Though very likely you'll never get it to zero anyway. I don't really like how this part of science has become political because it starts to distort the science and people start claiming this or that and trying to emphasize or play off certain aspects of the data. Humans are remarkable animals, and in the very short time we've been on this planet we've come to dominate it. Only a fool would say that we don't have an impact on the environment; locally and globally. But there are also long standing climate dynamics as well for we have seen extreme shifts in the earth's climate over long periods of time. So as climate changes, there are components which are natural and components which are man made.

    There have been droughts in the past, ice ages too. Weather patterns change, temps change, etc. That doesn't mean that humans can't or have not had an effect.
    Except that there is no indication that there HAS, so to pollute yet another thread with the global warming garbage because it MUST be true...thats kinda mindless. Good lord...droughts have occurred throughout history. But...stop the presses...THIS time...its AGW...uh huh!!! It is! And if you dont believe it you dont like science and stuff! Lets spend tons of money we dont have on more research about it.

    I dont know how many times that I have said SEPARATE of the AGW debate that we should already be pursuing green energy for cleaner and more efficient power sources. There is absolutely no reason to tard every discussion up with the OHMIGODGLOBALWARMINGWEREALLGONNADIE bull****.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    It may have an effect on the drought, it may not.

    I don't think climate change discussion pertains to this thread.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    You've said this four times now. Do you think if you try for a fifth time we'll agree with your opinion?
    Was that a response to you? If yet another bigoted and hate-filled intolerant leftist asks me then rest assured I will respond to THAT person in the same way. Of COURSE you wont AGREE with my opinion...you are the ones DOING it.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    My reason for citing "prayer in schools" was not to equate it to this situation, but to show that government entities do not have to make a law for it to be an establishment clause violation. Schools weren't trying to make a law saying you could pray, but teacher were leading prayer. It was a violation.

    This directly refutes the argument that the establishment clause only applies to laws.

    I said it before on this thread...

    Whether or not you agree with the prayer, whether or not its compulsory or voluntary, whether or not it's a "big deal", whether or not its a teaching environment... doesn't matter.

    The only thing that matters is that he's there in an official governmental capacity as "Governor" Rick Perry (not private citizen Rick Perry) for the primary purpose of promoting religion over non-religion and specifically Christianity over other religions.

    That is a clear violation of the establishment clause.

    I'll agree that the "prayer in schools" situation is a more egregious violation due to the fact that students weren't given a choice, but that doesn't matter. Teachers can't even lead a voluntary prayer.
    I'll think about this.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Was that a response to you? If yet another bigoted and hate-filled intolerant leftist asks me then rest assured I will respond to THAT person in the same way. Of COURSE you wont AGREE with my opinion...you are the ones DOING it.
    I'm the one doing what exactly?

    You're saying that "leftists" keep getting all pissy when Republicans bring up religion, but not when Democrats do.

    Please back up this claim that "I'm the one doing it". I've stated FOUR times now... I do not care if it's Republican or Democrat. When a Democrat thread pops up I'll hop in that one and give my two cents.

    Regarding THIS THREAD'S topic though...

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    Complaints? Can you be specific? What complaint?

    Also, could you be more specific on where you think I'm wrong.

    It's a bit difficult for me to respond to a baseless assertion.
    There seems to be a problem here where people do not read their quotes that are in my reply and then wonder what is being discussed. I quoted your complaint in my reply.

    Watch. Your quote which was in my reply.

    For the record, it's unconstitutional when Obama does it too.
    I quote that and reply: Your complaints will continued to be ignored as you are wrong.

    Understand how it works?

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Except that there is no indication that there HAS, so to pollute yet another thread with the global warming garbage because it MUST be true...thats kinda mindless. Good lord...droughts have occurred throughout history. But...stop the presses...THIS time...its AGW...uh huh!!! It is! And if you dont believe it you dont like science and stuff! Lets spend tons of money we dont have on more research about it.

    I dont know how many times that I have said SEPARATE of the AGW debate that we should already be pursuing green energy for cleaner and more efficient power sources. There is absolutely no reason to tard every discussion up with the OHMIGODGLOBALWARMINGWEREALLGONNADIE bull****.
    No, there certainly isn't. Between you and scientists, I'm going with scientists. They happen to know a little something something about....science. Go figure.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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