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Thread: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

  1. #261
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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Yesterday. 25 year old male. Cardiac arrest, unknown period without oxygen or blood circulation prior to transport. Oh, believe me, they did everything they could medically. The 2-3 hours afterward there was way more than 20CCs. ER doc advised family...in the hospital chapel.

    Dude is doing fine. No indication of long term damage. Medical skill saved the kid. Prayer kinda kept everyone together while they were awaiting the results. Works for some, obviously not for others. The prickish need of individuals to ridicule others in their belief system...well...that speaks volumes too.
    I'm not ridiculing anyone for their beliefs. I'm simply stating that prayer has not been proven to work and religious people realize this as well, even if they don't want to admit it.

    Your anecdote shows that it gives people something to do, but did not have a direct causal effect on the patient.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    You have seen plenty of utilitarian views. You just choose to ignore them.
    Can you run those past me one more time please? Perhaps just one example.

    The best I've seen so far is that it gives people "warm fuzzies".

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We have control over this global warming by the amount of CO2 we pump into the atmosphere. Shirking our responsibility to do something about it by thinking prayer will save us only serves to continue the trend.

    Storm Warnings: Extreme Weather Is a Product of Climate Change
    I dont know about everyone else....but when I pray for or about something, I dont just pray and forget all about it. I pray and then immediately go about doing whatever it is i personally can to change whatever circumstance it is im praying about. As an example.... When my grandfather was ill, i prayed for him and for my family. Then we went about talking to the doctors and whoever else about what we could do to make him better. If it rains in Oklahoma next week... is it prayer?? or is it just weather conditions coming together and it made rain? Does it really truly matter? they would have gotten rain. If someone thinks their personal prayer to God helped to make rain...whatever. If someone thinks that prayers made no difference at all...whatever.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    I'm not ridiculing anyone for their beliefs. I'm simply stating that prayer has not been proven to work and religious people realize this as well, even if they don't want to admit it.

    Your anecdote shows that it gives people something to do, but did not have a direct causal effect on the patient.
    Ask ANY doctor and they will tell you the same things. They see things they simply cant explain. Call it luck, call it a miracle, call it whatever you like. To be true...the rely first and foremost on the skills they developed over time. However, if you dont think science based individuals dont routinely engage in prayer for skill greater than that which they posess, you know no doctors.

    And you REALLY dont think you and others are ridiculing others beliefs? Funny...we have this whole thread...and several others just like it...

    That may not be your intent...yet...here you are. Its kinda like going up to someone enjoying a meal which you dont like and then feeling the need to exclaim..."ewwww...you are going to eat that? It tastes like ****!"

    So the governor can ask those so inclined to consider prayer. Indians can do a rain dance. Those NOT inclined can...well...
    Last edited by VanceMack; 07-18-11 at 06:38 PM.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    Can you run those past me one more time please? Perhaps just one example.

    The best I've seen so far is that it gives people "warm fuzzies".
    How is that not utilitarian?

    We have control over this global warming by the amount of CO2 we pump into the atmosphere. Shirking our responsibility to do something about it by thinking prayer will save us only serves to continue the trend.

    Storm Warnings: Extreme Weather Is a Product of Climate Change
    Okay, but are all droughts an example of Global Warming? And even if they were, consider....it's still happening, still a reality. Our methodology for farming after the turn of century diminished the soil, but when the weather turned for the worse, we hit disaster and out came the dust bowl. Would you honestly still diminish the act of prayer? It's not productive enough?

    Even supposing the prayers have no host to go to, when man is down and feeling his worst, could not the simple act of prayer help unite and moralize a troubled group?
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 07-18-11 at 07:02 PM.
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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaBrat View Post
    I dont know about everyone else....but when I pray for or about something, I dont just pray and forget all about it. I pray and then immediately go about doing whatever it is i personally can to change whatever circumstance it is im praying about. As an example.... When my grandfather was ill, i prayed for him and for my family. Then we went about talking to the doctors and whoever else about what we could do to make him better. If it rains in Oklahoma next week... is it prayer?? or is it just weather conditions coming together and it made rain? Does it really truly matter? they would have gotten rain. If someone thinks their personal prayer to God helped to make rain...whatever. If someone thinks that prayers made no difference at all...whatever.
    My only beef is with people who pray in lieu of personal responsibility.
    Last edited by Catawba; 07-18-11 at 07:02 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    My only beef is with people who pray as an alternative to personal responsibility.
    I have a problem with that too. God says to come to him with your troubles and worries, he says nothing about... and then sit on your butt and do nothing.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Okay, but are all droughts an example of Global Warming? And even if they were, consider....it's still happening, still a reality. Our methodology for farming after the turn of century diminished the soil, but when the weather turned for the worse, we hit disaster and out came the dust bowl. Would you honestly still diminish the act of prayer? It's not productive enough?

    Even supposing the prayers have no host to go to, when man is down and feeling his worst, could not the simple act of prayer help unite and moralize a troubled group?
    We have to apply a little common sense here. Global warming increases droughts and wildfires. Only reducing our CO2 output (not prayer) has the likehood of preventing severe droughts and other extreme weather events in the future. If the Mayor had said we all need to be reminded of our wasteful uses of energy and cut back on wasting of energy to help avoid more of this in the future, that would make sense, and then if the Mayor wanted to add that praying wouldn't hurt as well, I would have then seen it as a responsible thing to say.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We have to apply a little common sense here. Global warming increases droughts and wildfires. Only reducing our CO2 output (not prayer) has the likehood of preventing severe droughts and other extreme weather events in the future. If the Mayor had said we all need to be reminded of our wasteful uses of energy and cut back on wasting of energy to help avoid more of this in the future, that would make sense, and then if the Mayor wanted to add that praying wouldn't hurt as well, I would have then seen it as a responsible thing to say.
    CO2 emissions made all the difference back in the 1930s...


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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    CO2 emissions made all the difference back in the 1930s...

    So you go with the reasoning that because nature started brush fires without man, man is not capable of startiing brush fires?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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