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Thread: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

  1. #181
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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by Polotick View Post
    No, a non-event is evidence of exactly nothing.
    Yeah, you are not following along or you are purposefully missing the point. The idea that God does not exist is falsifiable. If God descends from the clouds or does some sort of miracle on command the atheist position would be proven false. No, that does not imply that a failure to do so is evidence of the atheist position. That was not the point. The atheist position is falsifiable, the theistic one is not.
    Last edited by BayToBay; 07-15-11 at 06:51 PM.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    Heh... you'd first have to prove that prayer causes rain.

    If you could do that, then yes... you'd have your secular purpose and I'd have no problem with it :-)

    Until then though :-)
    I just had to post that, I am a bad Panda.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    Yeah, you are not following along or you are purposefully missing the point. The idea that God does not exist is falisfiable. If God descends from the clouds or does some sort of miracle on command the atheist position would be proven false. No, that does not imply that a failure to do so is evindence of the atheist position. That was not the point. The atheist position is falisfiable, the theistic one is not.
    Militant atheists give me a rash. Their position is completely indefensible.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    What's the secular purpose for praying for rain?
    Crops, irrigation, reduced fire hazards, etc.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    Sure, different justices will rule differently. I never argued otherwise. But notice the test they used to determine that it was (in their opinion) not a violation of the establishment clause. They used the lemon test. They asked "Is there a secular purpose". They found (again, in there opinion) that there was a secular purpose.

    So... we apply that same test here.

    18 pages, still no secular purpose for praying for rain.
    But the Lemon Test requires government action. What actions has the government taken in this accord?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    Because you don't understand what it is like to be surrounded by those who disagree with you in such a violent way that it is clear they can barely keep themselves from attacking you. They are allowed to have their prayers, but if the atheist or minority religion, says "I disagree" he is just a troublemaker. Having an agent of the state that insists on using his office as a bully pulpit makes the fear of assault even greater because one cannot count on the state for protection. It should not be done, it is offensive and certainly chills speech and freedom of religion.

    The lawsuit is worthwhile, though I am not sure it is the best use of resources. Praying for rain is a complete waste of time.
    Praying for rain is a complete waste of time, as is the lawsuit. Because the lawsuit isn't for government action aimed against atheists. If there was something denying atheists their ability to speak, sure it's worthwhile. If it's just something stupid like "I don't want people praying for rain", then it's worthless. Like that one douche of an atheist who sued a church because of its bells. There's nothing here which puts us at more risk, the State is not going to stop upholding laws for atheists because some jerks go into a field and pray for rain. If you could PROVE that point, then maybe the lawsuit would be worthwhile. I can't see anything here which supports your conclusion that it "...certainly chills speech and freedom of religion". I see assumption and supposition; but no proof.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    God can be proven. He can show himself or he could be discovered in an empirically observable way. He cannot be disproven, because the definition is based on supernatural bs.
    Really? He must exist then, because I actually know someone who was 100% certain that he appeared before her, spoke to her, and told her that unless she killed herself, thousands would die. On another occaision, he showed himself and told her that when she blew out a candle, some random person in Africa would die.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    Sure, different justices will rule differently. I never argued otherwise. But notice the test they used to determine that it was (in their opinion) not a violation of the establishment clause. They used the lemon test. They asked "Is there a secular purpose". They found (again, in there opinion) that there was a secular purpose.

    So... we apply that same test here.

    18 pages, still no secular purpose for praying for rain.
    The article notes that many simply dismiss the notion that it means anything.

    There is no need to answer the question as it's basis is false. I provided an example as to why. What is the secular purpose for military chaplains?

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    He was quoting the decision in that case ruling. This wasn't his opinion.
    I don't care who all said it. They are wrong. I've provided examples to back up my position.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    The position that God does not exists is falsifiable. Father Guido Sarducci gave an example of it at the Rally for Sanity. Just have God produce a rainbow or something on command.

    Father Guido Sarducci - Rally Benediction - Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear - Video Clip | Comedy Central
    LOL what?? How could that possibly prove the existence of God?

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