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Thread: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    I'm new here, but it sounds like you're making the argument that slavery is not inherently wrong. Is that right? I hope not.
    No, why would I do that?

    My post was meant to refute the previous poster's assertion that prayer is okay because congress has been doing it every morning.
    That was my point.

    As the court rulings I cited back up, the notion that something is "okay to do because we've always done it that way" is flawed logic.
    And yet they have not stopped this and many more religous actions the government undertakes. There are cases that I would agree conflicts with the 1st and the courts would be right to overturn those actions. Such as if the guv had stated that all government employee's had to stop what they were doing at 2:00 and pray for rain. He did nothing of the sort though.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    I find this kind of act unconstitutional.
    Please point me to what state religion this has established

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I believe in science, but also recognize that there's a bunch of crap that derives from it, and crackpots that practice it. Logic tells ME not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
    That's probably because your politics tells you there's crap in science. Im not saying there isnt. I dont know, im not a scientist and i try not to listen to "opinions" based on science. if anything, i'll look at scientific journals that have peer reviews.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    Fun fact...

    Before Rick Perry asked people to pray for rain...



    After people prayed.



    Whatever you do, don't pray OR LISTEN TO RICK PERRY ABOUT ANYTHING, FOR ANY REASON. It appears to make things worse! :-)
    Fixed that for ya.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Please point me to what state religion this has established
    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry
    And yet they have not stopped this and many more religous actions the government undertakes. There are cases that I would agree conflicts with the 1st and the courts would be right to overturn those actions. Such as if the guv had stated that all government employee's had to stop what they were doing at 2:00 and pray for rain. He did nothing of the sort though.
    Engel v. Vitale (1962)

    "The establishment clause...does not depend upon a showing of direct governmental compulsion..."

    You can have violations of the establishment clause without establishing a state/government religion.

    Government shall make no law RESPECTING and establishment of religion.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by SlackMaster View Post
    Engel v. Vitale (1962)

    "The establishment clause...does not depend upon a showing of direct governmental compulsion..."

    You can have violations of the establishment clause without establishing a state/government religion.

    Government shall make no law RESPECTING and establishment of religion.
    Nor do we have one here. As I stated, if he had directed employee's to pray to his god at 3:00 there would be a problem.
    Last edited by 1Perry; 07-15-11 at 03:00 PM.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Please point me to what state religion this has established
    We'll find out what the court decision says.
    Atheist Group Files Lawsuit, Claims Rick Perry's Prayer Rally 'Unconstitutional', Christian News

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Nor do we have one here. As I stated, if he had directed employee's to pray to his god at 3:00 there would be a prolem.
    Whether or not he told them to pray or suggested that they pray is irrelevant when it comes to determining if this is a constitutional violation. "The establishment clause DOES NOT depend upon direct governmental compulsion".

    The government has to have a secular purpose for asking people, urging people, or telling people to pray. If it doesn't have a secular purpose, it fails the Lemon Test and is unconstitutional.

    Asking for people to pray is unconstitutional for the same reasons asking people to blaspheme is unconstitutional.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rev Kros View Post
    As the article notes, they've already lost the arguement.

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    Re: Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rev Kros View Post
    I think they'll lose unless they can prove he's attending in an official governmental capacity. If he's there as Rick Perry (the private citizen) they'll probably lose.

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