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McConnell Offers 'Backup' US Debt Limit Plan

I see what you're saying, Jeezy, but it's not that simple. You see, per Art 1, Sect 9, clause 6 of the U.S. Constitution, it is Congress' responsibility to determine exactly what those "appropriations" are under the law. If they don't adhere to Art 1, Sect 8, clause 2, they place the Treasury's ability to pay for those appropriations in jeapordy effectively "passing the buck" - being derelect in their duties as members of Congress. While it is true that Treasury would have to pay bills anyway, its job becomes that much harder because without the ability to borrow money since revenues are thin (remember, Treasury isn't collecting enough income taxes to keep pace with spending obligations) it has to pick and choose which bills to pay.

I don't see why any of this is an insurmountable problem. In a post 8/2 world, I envision the president submitting one last budget proposal to Congress....his "doomsday" budget, which I am positive has already been written.

They will pass it, and fulfill their constitutional duty.

It's that simple.

To that, you are correct. IF Treasure decides to pay only those debt obligations (appropriations) listed on page 13 of the report, it wouldn't be maximizing it's "bang for the buck" as much as it would be if it had chosen to pay for those debt obligations listed on page 16 as the total amounts are nearly identical. Just so everyone understands what Jeezy and I are talking about here:

From page 13 of the report (all figures in billions):

Defense Vendor Payments (page 13) = $31.7

From page 16 of the report (all figures in billions):

Food/Nutrition Services + TANF = $9.3
HUD Programs = $6.7
Veterans Affairs Programs = $2.9
Special Education Grants = $3.6
Tuition Assistance = $10.4
Total = $32.9

Diff between expenditures on page 16 from page 13 = $1.2 billion ($173.9 - 172.7)

 
We all know something needs to happen, and it should already have happened. It's the Republicans somehow trying to pretend they play no part in this, they want no responsibility for this, that is the hold up.
I've heard *many* Republicans openly recognize that they've also been guilty of out-of-control spending. They also recognize (but need constant reminders) that the only reason they were given another chance is because the democrats the past few years were far worse. To agree with Obama on a tax and spend deal toward fiscal responsibility risks a devastating blow to the party, which is why it's not going to happen.
 
Debt ceiling push is getting more heated, only now promonent business leaders have gotten into the frey. They're all but demanding that the debt ceiling gets raised and they're pushing Congress, especially the GOP, to make it happen FAST!!!

WashingtonPost.com/Business

“The business community in large numbers is saying to our leaders in Washington, ‘Do your job,’ ” said Business Roundtable President John Engler, a former Republican governor of Michigan. “Failure to raise the debt ceiling would strike an immediate and serious blow to any economic recovery, and failure to make significant progress on long-term debt reduction will continue the uncertainty which is hampering our investment climate.”

...

The differences over the debt ceiling present a problem for corporate donors, who helped create the House Republican majority by shifting their contributions away from Democrats last year. The Chamber, which is Washington’s biggest lobbying organization, also spent millions on advertising in support of GOP challengers.

The Public Campaign Action Fund, a liberal-leaning advocacy group that favors public financing of elections, calculates that the Chamber and the financial services sector together spent nearly $20 million on GOP midterm candidates affiliated with the conservative tea party movement. Those rank-and-file Republicans now form the backbone of opposition to any new tax revenue, including Democratic proposals to end loopholes benefiting hedge fund managers, corporate jet owners, and oil and gas companies.

...

Wall Street lobbyists and other business groups preferred private meetings with GOP members to educate them on the consequences of a default. Several lobbyists also met Monday afternoon with Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner to repeat their concerns.

This is getting very interesting indeed! :popcorn2:
 
Debt ceiling push is getting more heated, only now promonent business leaders have gotten into the frey. They're all but demanding that the debt ceiling gets raised and they're pushing Congress, especially the GOP, to make it happen FAST!!!

WashingtonPost.com/Business



This is getting very interesting indeed! :popcorn2:

Yes, it is

U.S. Chamber’s Tom Donohue tells Atlanta Rotary how business is faring in D.C. | SaportaReport

In one of the funnier moments during his Rotary talk, Donohue was asked if Congress was going to raise the debt ceiling.

Yes, it will be raised, Donohue answered, mainly because the country can not afford to not pay its bills. To those newly-elected representatives who say they aren’t going to raise the debt ceiling and will shut down government, Donohue said the U.S. Chamber has its own message: “We’ll get rid of you.”
 
...the U.S. Chamber has its own message: "We’ll get rid of you".

DAMN!!! Talk about sending a strong message to members of Congress who sold their souls to corporate interest!!

This is what Sen McConnel had to say to that (from the same NYTimes.com article linked below, first paragraph no less!)

The Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, warned Wednesday that allowing a federal default could have disastrous political consequences for his party and “destroy” the Republican brand.

Seems the GOP is now in fallback mode w/o a sensable fallback plan. Speaking of which...

More on Sen. McConnel's "fallback plan"...

From NYTimes.com:

Mr. McConnell’s proposal would give Mr. Obama sweeping power to increase the government’s borrowing authority, in three increments, by up to $2.4 trillion — enough, it is estimated, to cover federal obligations through next year — only if Mr. Obama specifies spending cuts of equal amounts. Congress would vote on whether or not to approve Mr. Obama’s debt-limit increases, but the president could veto any disapproval and presumably sustain his veto in the House and Senate.

And here's the kicker, ladies and gentlemen...

And Congress would not have to approve the proposed spending cuts before the debt-limit increase.

All I have to say to this is...:wow:...:shock:
 
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Hallelujah and Amen.

Yes, indeed.

The American people have at last discovered how to spend their way to prosperity!

Once you get past $15 trillion mark it really doesn't matter anymore. Why have ceilings at all?

Raise high the roofbeam, carpenters~.
 
To those newly-elected representatives who say they aren’t going to raise the debt ceiling and will shut down government, Donohue said the U.S. Chamber has its own message: “We’ll get rid of you.”

It'll be interesting to see if the GOP believes in business or in the Tea Party. It seems that they have two different agendas on this one.
 
Once again, the dems did not vote against it because they are ideologically opposed to increasing the debt. Their position is that sometimes debt is OK, and sometimes not OK. Therefore, being sometimes for debt and sometimes against it is not hypocritical. It is consistent with their beliefs

The repubs, on the other hand, make a big show about how they oppose the debt and deficit spending.....except when they are in the majority. Suddenly deficit spending and debt is not a problem....It's a necessity!!!!


It's OK If You're A Republican

laughing .... okay ... I think I got this ..... libs are not against the debt ..... as long as they are running it up ..... but if republicans are doing the running up ... welllllllll then they are against it ... So what you are saying ... is that it's only for political reasons ..... that they are for or against the debt .... thanks for clearing that up .. sounds to me just like you are accusing the republicans of .......
 
The GOP is setting a trap for Obama. Obama vetoes then raises it on his own, per the Republican plan, he gets attacked as trashing the Constitution. However, Obama actually does have a play at invoking the "legitimacy of all valid debt" clause, contained in the 14th Amendment. Whereas Congress violates the Constitution by refusing to authorize what the United States owes, Obama can submit an executive order designed to bring the United States into compliance with the Constitution.

An executive order has zero effect on Congress. Only Congress can borrow money on the credit of the US. 14th Amendment doesn't apply to the President, because debt must be validated by law, which only Congress can pass.
 
laughing .... okay ... I think I got this ..... libs are not against the debt ..... as long as they are running it up ..... but if republicans are doing the running up ... welllllllll then they are against it ... So what you are saying ... is that it's only for political reasons ..... that they are for or against the debt .... thanks for clearing that up .. sounds to me just like you are accusing the republicans of .......

Wrong again. I'm not surprised you have to imagine that others have said something in order to have an argument. The fact remains, there is nothing hypocritical about the dems sometimes opposing spending and sometimes supporting it, depending on the circumstances, because that's consistent with their ideology

The repubs, on the other hand, say they are ideologically opposed to increase spending, but when they are in control, they have always increased spending. That is hypocritical
 
LOL!

thanks to harry reid

hurryup harry REFUSES TO CUT SPENDING

it happened IN THE SENATE!

good

did you SEE what the SENATE did to OBAMA'S proposal?

President's budget sinks, 97-0 - TheHill.com

good thinking, thales

Still think people will just read the link headline without reading the story I see:

"Democratic aides said ahead of the vote that the Democratic caucus would not support the plan because it has been supplanted by the deficit-reduction plan Obama outlined at a speech at George Washington University in April."

This is the $4 trillion deficit reduction plan that the GOP walked away from because it included raising taxes on their wealthy clients by a few percentage points.
 
If Obama wants to get his budget, passed, he needs to do it the Chicago way.

Just call Boehner into a closed meeting, and say "unless you vote on my budget, I will implement one or more Security Council Resolutions regarding Israel's illegal settlements, using the military."

If Boehner goes public w/that threat, just deny ever having made it, and accuse him of making "reckless, baseless accusations" and "playing politics."

Then just sit back and watch the GOP shine your shoes (compliments of AIPAC) :)
 
supplanted?

LOL!

the president's written budget, submitted to congress on february 14, was supplanted two months later by a STUMP SPEECH at gwu on april 13 in which barack the slasher hussein attempted to TAKE IT ALL BACK

yup, that's exactly what the links all say

hey, i wonder why kent conrad has still failed to WRITE UP all that pretty NEW rhetoric the slasher has been stumping since that humiliating retrenchment at gwu

the only budget submitted by this white house to this or the last congress in 3 years was defeated in the united states senate, controlled by the president's own party, 97 to 0

President's budget sinks, 97-0 - TheHill.com

how embarrassing

leadership, anyone?
 
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You can continue to delude yourself if you wish, however, this is what's on the table to reduce the deficit:

president-obamas-approach-graphic.revised2.jpg


See it in print here:
President Obama
 
LOL!

can't even get it thru committee

no clue about what's going on in the news

no idea how a bill becomes a law

it's degrading
 
You can continue to delude yourself if you wish, however, this is what's on the table to reduce the deficit:

president-obamas-approach-graphic.revised2.jpg


See it in print here:
President Obama

Maybe the republicans can just give the president unlimited power to enact whatever he wants. Then, they can vote it up or down, and he can choose to veto or accept their vote. That way, things can get done and if it works out they can say, "See we took over Congress and it all worked out." And if it doesn't work out they can reply, "It was all that Obama guy!!!"

Cowards.
 
Maybe the republicans can just give the president unlimited power to enact whatever he wants. Then, they can vote it up or down, and he can choose to veto or accept their vote. That way, things can get done and if it works out they can say, "See we took over Congress and it all worked out." And if it doesn't work out they can reply, "It was all that Obama guy!!!"

Cowards.

The people you're posting to. I swear this is what my brain plays these days, every time they post. Just the chorus, mind you.

 
Boehner Walks Away From Big Deficit Deal

"“The President believes that solving our fiscal problems is an economic imperative. But in order to do that, we cannot ask the middle-class and seniors to bear all the burden of higher costs and budget cuts. We need a balanced approach that asks the very wealthiest and special interests to pay their fair share as well, and we believe the American people agree.

“Both parties have made real progress thus far, and to back off now will not only fail to solve our fiscal challenge, it will confirm the cynicism people have about politics in Washington. The President believes that now is the moment to rise above that cynicism and show the American people that we can still do big things. And so tomorrow, he will make the case to congressional leaders that we must reject the politics of least resistance and take on this critical challenge.”

The grand bargain, which would have included cuts upwards of $4.5 trillion, had been billed as too big to fail — a package offering major prizes for both parties. “The bigger, the better,” one freshman GOP member told TIME on Friday. “The bigger it is the harder it is to let fail.” GOP leaders had been hoping that the prospects of game-changing spending cuts coupled with a once-in-a lifetime tax reform deal — a second tranche that would have passed before the end of the year — would have convinced recalcitrant Republicans and Democrats to go along. But both sides have dug in their heels in recent days and partisan sparring continued in the wake of Boehner’s announcement."
 
Boehner Walks Away From Big Deficit Deal

"“The President believes that solving our fiscal problems is an economic imperative. But in order to do that, we cannot ask the middle-class and seniors to bear all the burden of higher costs and budget cuts. We need a balanced approach that asks the very wealthiest and special interests to pay their fair share as well, and we believe the American people agree.

“Both parties have made real progress thus far, and to back off now will not only fail to solve our fiscal challenge, it will confirm the cynicism people have about politics in Washington. The President believes that now is the moment to rise above that cynicism and show the American people that we can still do big things. And so tomorrow, he will make the case to congressional leaders that we must reject the politics of least resistance and take on this critical challenge.”

The grand bargain, which would have included cuts upwards of $4.5 trillion, had been billed as too big to fail — a package offering major prizes for both parties. “The bigger, the better,” one freshman GOP member told TIME on Friday. “The bigger it is the harder it is to let fail.” GOP leaders had been hoping that the prospects of game-changing spending cuts coupled with a once-in-a lifetime tax reform deal — a second tranche that would have passed before the end of the year — would have convinced recalcitrant Republicans and Democrats to go along. But both sides have dug in their heels in recent days and partisan sparring continued in the wake of Boehner’s announcement."

It looks like spending won't be cut very much after all, and the Democrats may actually walk away from this with a political victory to boot. What a difference a week makes. Thank God we have Eric Cantor in Congress; he did more to advance liberal causes than anyone else at the negotiating table, Democrat or Republican.
 
It looks like spending won't be cut very much after all, and the Democrats may actually walk away from this with a political victory to boot. What a difference a week makes. Thank God we have Eric Cantor in Congress; he did more to advance liberal causes than anyone else at the negotiating table, Democrat or Republican.

I care little for the political victory, but I guess it was nice to see the Democrats grow a spine. I am disappointed most that we have missed the opportunity to cut spending and increase revenues significantly.
 
I care little for the political victory, but I guess it was nice to see the Democrats grow a spine. I am disappointed most that we have missed the opportunity to cut spending and increase revenues significantly.

I bet it still comes. A great many people will have a great deal to prove in the next 15 months.
 
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