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Thread: McConnell Offers 'Backup' US Debt Limit Plan

  1. #61
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    Re: McConnell Offers 'Backup' US Debt Limit Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    True, but the reasons both Obama and Reid gave were not that they were opposed to any raising of the debt. Therefore, there is nothing hypocritical about their opposing one raising of the debt ceiling, while supporting another. Additionally, Obama admits that his opposition was a mistake. I don't recall any sitting republicans saying their support for raising the debt ceiling was a mistake
    breaks out laughing ........ and what else could he say at this point in time about his vote against raising the debt ???? Either he was wrong then .. . or he is wrong now ..

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    Re: McConnell Offers 'Backup' US Debt Limit Plan

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/13/us.../13fiscal.html

    Hopes Dwindling for Compromise in Budget Talks

    The longtime conservative activist Brent Bozell encouraged followers online to call Mr. McConnell’s office, saying he had “betrayed the trust of the American people.” And Newt Gingrich, a Republican presidential candidate, tweeted, “McConnell’s plan is an irresponsible surrender to big government, big deficits and continued overspending.” Yet Mr. Gingrich is no stranger to the risks in a showdown with a president of the other party; in the mid-1990’s, as House speaker, he forced a government shutdown in a budget fight with President Bill Clinton that backfired against Congressional Republicans.
    Some people never learn.

  3. #63
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    Re: McConnell Offers 'Backup' US Debt Limit Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Here's the problem with that logic:

    If the debt ceiling isn't raised, somebody has to choose between making Social Security payments and the Defense Department making payroll. Go ahead, I'll let you choose. I like the idea of responsible government, but the time for that was a few years ago. Now, the responsible thing is to raise the ceiling, even though this will be difficult for some to do politically.

    McConnell's being an asshat. He's just trying to deflect responsibility. Harry Reid, I understand, loves the idea because it means he doesn't have to take responsibility either. I've got news for these guys: YOU WEREN'T ELECTED TO DEFLECT RESPONSIBILITY! Your job is to make hard choices and to be accountable to the people for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    How, exactly, is that a problem with my logic? I never said there wouldn't be difficult choices. That's why it's called "austerity." The idea that we could have done this "a few years ago" but not now is silly. Now is precisely the time to do it. Also, I don't buy the whole "It's either food for the poor or security for the helpless," approach. Not all government spending is completely necessary, so the choice you're presenting me with is more than a little bit silly.
    I think both of you are wrong and here's why:

    Art 1, Sect 9, clause 6 of the U.S. Constitution:

    No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.
    Congress wrote the laws and affixed appropriations to same. The appropriations were scored by the appropriate committee in each chamber of Congress (for the House, the Weighs and Means Committee; for the Senate, the Senate Finance Committee). The bills were then scored by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) who informs Congress how much their bill will actually cost - too much, not enough - among other things. If Congress doesn't go back and revised the numbers, as necessary, whose fault is it then really for putting this country in financial disarray? Congress knows just as the Treasury what's at stake here.

    Congress made this mess. It's Congress' responsibility to do the right thing and clean it up!! The President has laid down the framework under which Congress has to work out their differences. Either they step up and meet the nation's financial obligations, or they've violated their oath to uphold the Constitution.

    As per Sen. McConnell's proposal on handling the debt ceiling, IMO it's unconstitutional and here's why:

    Art 1, Sect 8, clause 2 of the U.S. Constitution:

    The Congress shall have Power...to borrow money on the credit of the United States
    This is one of Congress' enumerated powers. To delegate - correction...FORCE - this responsibility onto the President is a derelections of his duty as a U.S. Senator to uphold the Constitution. Nevermind that the process he's proposing IMO would also be unconstitutional. You can't approve a bill, send it to the President for signature, then turn around and write another bill affectively passing on Congress' emurated power to "borrow money on the credit of the U.S." to the President that way. As donaldsutherland points out in the OP, the bill Congress approves over a presidential veto must be the same bill they sent him in the first place! The trickery McConnel proposes is as Newt Gingrich says - R-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S!

    Here's an article from MSN.com that better explains Sen. McConnell's proposal.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 07-12-11 at 11:54 PM.

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    Re: McConnell Offers 'Backup' US Debt Limit Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Deuce, Sangha - You are both right. When the debt ceiling was raised under Bush, there were some Democrats who pissed and moaned about it. However, the party as a whole voted overwhelmingly in support of it. Obama was one of those who pissed and moaned, but I never liked him anyways. LOL. On the other hand, the GOP is threatening to slice the throat of America if they don't get their way, and this appears to be the party as a whole, and that is the difference.
    yeah? well Democrats are threatning to Burn America Alive and then rape children!!!!





    oh.

    wait.

    that's a really stupid way to "debate."

    my bad.

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    Re: McConnell Offers 'Backup' US Debt Limit Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaBrat View Post
    Because voters have very short term memories. We forget that when a Rep ruled the white house, it was the democrats screaming that raising the debt ceiling was such a horrible thing to do. But now that a Dem rules the white house, seems they conveniently changed their minds. Same with Republicans...they all do it...each and every time... because we let them get away with it. Just like President Obama saying that not raising the debt ceiling was a lack of leadership and blah blah blah...hmmm...he conveniently forgot that when he got into office. Its why nothing ever gets done.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    breaks out laughing ........ and what else could he say at this point in time about his vote against raising the debt ???? Either he was wrong then .. . or he is wrong now ..
    Its fine to feign your outrage (and even vote no, as long as your vote is moot), but actually failing to pass the debt limit increase is a crime against America.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 07-13-11 at 12:34 AM.

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    Re: McConnell Offers 'Backup' US Debt Limit Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Except now we would not have those problems if republicans had not kept kicking the can down the street.
    whole-heartedly agreed. I still find it difficult to forgive them for turning on Social Security reform back in 2005.

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    Re: McConnell Offers 'Backup' US Debt Limit Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/13/us.../13fiscal.html

    Hopes Dwindling for Compromise in Budget Talks



    Some people never learn.
    Isn't that the fight he ended up winning with clinton signing the budget and the left screaming how he caved. And today he trumpets it as his greatest achievement, hell gingrich was only one vote shy of passing a balanced budget amendment if I remember right. None of this would be necessary right now if it had gotten through.

  8. #68
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    Re: McConnell Offers 'Backup' US Debt Limit Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I think both of you are wrong and here's why:

    Art 1, Sect 9, clause 6 of the U.S. Constitution:



    Congress wrote the laws and affixed appropriations to same. The appropriations were scored by the appropriate committee in each chamber of Congress (for the House, the Weighs and Means Committee; for the Senate, the Senate Finance Committee). The bills were then scored by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) who informs Congress how much their bill will actually cost - too much, not enough - among other things. If Congress doesn't go back and revised the numbers, as necessary, whose fault is it then really for putting this country in financial disarray? Congress knows just as the Treasury what's at stake here.

    Congress made this mess. It's Congress' responsibility to do the right thing and clean it up!! The President has laid down the framework under which Congress has to work out their differences. Either they step up and meet the nation's financial obligations, or they've violated their oath to uphold the Constitution.

    As per Sen. McConnell's proposal on handling the debt ceiling, IMO it's unconstitutional and here's why:

    Art 1, Sect 8, clause 2 of the U.S. Constitution:



    This is one of Congress' enumerated powers. To delegate - correction...FORCE - this responsibility onto the President is a derelections of his duty as a U.S. Senator to uphold the Constitution. Nevermind that the process he's proposing IMO would also be unconstitutional. You can't approve a bill, send it to the President for signature, then turn around and write another bill affectively passing on Congress' emurated power to "borrow money on the credit of the U.S." to the President that way. As donaldsutherland points out in the OP, the bill Congress approves over a presidential veto must be the same bill they sent him in the first place! The trickery McConnel proposes is as Newt Gingrich says - R-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S!

    Here's an article from MSN.com that better explains Sen. McConnell's proposal.
    I've wondered about how his proposal could possibly be legal. Then again, how is it legal for anyone to single handedly decide what gets paid and what doesn't get paid. Congress appropriated the money, therefore it cannot be dis-appropriated without Congressional action.

    So even though you said I was wrong, you get a "like."


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: McConnell Offers 'Backup' US Debt Limit Plan

    rocket88,

    Much appreciate it.

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    Re: McConnell Offers 'Backup' US Debt Limit Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Truckstop View Post
    Isn't that the fight he ended up winning with clinton signing the budget and the left screaming how he caved. And today he trumpets it as his greatest achievement, hell gingrich was only one vote shy of passing a balanced budget amendment if I remember right. None of this would be necessary right now if it had gotten through.
    Forgive my shallow understanding of the US Constitution, but I don't believe constitutional amendments can be lost by one vote in the House of Representatives. It seems to me there is a rather long, arduous (and perhaps impossible) process that involves agreement of 34 state legislatures.... The Balanced Budget Amendment has been and always will be nothing but a conservative fantasy. It will never happen (not to mention that it is a horrible idea, but that is another discussion)
    Last edited by upsideguy; 07-13-11 at 01:48 AM.

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