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Thread: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

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    Re: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Not sure it matters as far too many Federal programs are filled with fraud and abuse.
    All programs have issues with fraud and abuse. Even private programs. The problem with governmental programs is that they tend to be larger, which makes oversight harder.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The problem with governmental programs is that they tend to be larger, which makes oversight harder.
    no, the problem is that without competition, bloat and fraud can continue on indefinitely

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    Re: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Depends on the death panel. The phrase originated with Palin claiming that end of life counseling would lead to death panels. This was false.[1] In trying to justify what she said, conservatives claimed her comment was actually about deciding what was being covered by Medicare, but again, all insurance then has such death panels.

    By the way, what insurance plan covers the most people in this country?

    Onto this issue: It is not "patently untrue" that SS checks could be at risk[2]. No one knows for sure. It is unlikely to be the case that the first moths checks will not go out, but not 100 % impossible. I would still call Obama's comments a "scare tactic" and dislike such tactics.

    However, the point being that those complaining loudest about this being a scare tactic are those who actually backed Palin's claims about "death panels".
    And my point is, if you're going to criticize the GOP for using scare tactics, should you also criticize the other side for doing it as well, especially if you're an especially vocal critic when the GOP does it. I know you're not saying that only the GOP is hypocritical. Didn't Obama vote, not all that long ago to not raise the debt ceiling, citing many of the same arguments that are being used in this current debate?

    I supplied footnotes for handy referencing. Just an experiment to see if it is easier to make posts readable while getting the most info.



    [1]Palin: "The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's death panel so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil."

    [2] Source: PolitiFact | Barack Obama said Social Security and other federal checks may not go out on Aug. 3 if the debt ceiling is not increased
    Interesting quote from your second source;

    "The president is probably justified in saying that the possibility of an un-raised debt ceiling jeopardizes Social Security checks -- after all, it hasn't happened before, so no one knows for sure. But we also think the president probably has tools at his disposal to avoid the worst-case scenario for seniors that he expresses concern about. Acknowledging that there are a lot of uncertainties, we rate his statement Half True"

    So if checks don't go out, it'll be because Obama prioritized something else over them.
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    Re: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    All programs have issues with fraud and abuse. Even private programs. The problem with governmental programs is that they tend to be larger, which makes oversight harder.
    We disagree.

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    Re: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    And my point is, if you're going to criticize the GOP for using scare tactics, should you also criticize the other side for doing it as well, especially if you're an especially vocal critic when the GOP does it. I know you're not saying that only the GOP is hypocritical. Didn't Obama vote, not all that long ago to not raise the debt ceiling, citing many of the same arguments that are being used in this current debate?
    Maybe you missed this part of my post:

    I would still call Obama's comments a "scare tactic" and dislike such tactics.
    Interesting quote from your second source;

    "The president is probably justified in saying that the possibility of an un-raised debt ceiling jeopardizes Social Security checks -- after all, it hasn't happened before, so no one knows for sure. But we also think the president probably has tools at his disposal to avoid the worst-case scenario for seniors that he expresses concern about. Acknowledging that there are a lot of uncertainties, we rate his statement Half True"

    So if checks don't go out, it'll be because Obama prioritized something else over them.
    Note the word "probably". I made it bold for you. If you can probably do something, is it safe to say you possibly cannot, which would make Obama saying he cannot "guarantee" in fact accurate. This does not make it less of a scare tactic, but it does make his statement technically correct.

    If things reach that point, there will be a whole lot of scrambling and rapid decision making and reacting quickly to events, all of which leads to a likelihood of less than ideal outcomes. I personally would not bet on anything good coming out of it, and am not discounting any possibility. Hopefully it does not reach that point.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    We disagree.
    We disagree with your disagreement.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Not sure it matters as far too many Federal programs are filled with fraud and abuse.
    Irrelevant non-sequitur.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I can only get two of the three up, but they were 2009. Any chance this was just temporary? Like I said, I see no evidence at the lot.
    in general the effects were temporary in both directions for new cars - the C4C program pulled all of the buyers into the time period it was available, and sales crashed afterwards. the price of older cars spiked during the same time period for the same reason that there was a $4,500 floor pushing prices for them up. at this point, however, the only increase in used vehicles will be because of decreased supply from the destruction and increased demand due to a continued slump of an economy (times are tough, people buy fewer new cars) thanks to an administration that thinks the solution to our ills is things like Cash For Clunkers.

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    Re: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    All programs have issues with fraud and abuse. Even private programs. The problem with governmental programs is that they tend to be larger, which makes oversight harder.
    and incentives are not as strong to seek out, find, and fix them. if my coworker manages to work the system and get an extra few hundred out of the government, i slap him on the back and say hey man good job. if he gets a few extra hundred from me; I am pissed off and I'm going to get it back.

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    Re: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    And my point is, if you're going to criticize the GOP for using scare tactics, should you also criticize the other side for doing it as well, especially if you're an especially vocal critic when the GOP does it. I know you're not saying that only the GOP is hypocritical. Didn't Obama vote, not all that long ago to not raise the debt ceiling, citing many of the same arguments that are being used in this current debate?



    Interesting quote from your second source;

    "The president is probably justified in saying that the possibility of an un-raised debt ceiling jeopardizes Social Security checks -- after all, it hasn't happened before, so no one knows for sure. But we also think the president probably has tools at his disposal to avoid the worst-case scenario for seniors that he expresses concern about. Acknowledging that there are a lot of uncertainties, we rate his statement Half True"

    So if checks don't go out, it'll be because Obama prioritized something else over them.
    precisely. there is enough money coming in to fund the debt, social security, medicare, and the pay for active duty troops.

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