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Thread: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

  1. #261
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    Re: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

    the president too has priorities

    he wants that 2.4 to get thru

    he wants taxes, but he knows better

    he wants to save as many hundreds of billions of dollars from entitlement reform, which nature has thrust upon him, as he possibly can

    the republican stance is known and will not budge---dollar for dollar, no taxes

    it's obama's move, it really always has been

    will he yield, and where?
    Last edited by The Prof; 07-13-11 at 04:53 PM.

  2. #262
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    Re: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Democrats (or at least Obama) seem not so much interested in added revenue as they are in raising taxes (on the rich).
    I think they're interested in doing both. And that's OK with me.

    Boehner offered as one solution to add revenue the plan suggested by Obama's own bipartisan debt commission, but Obama would not agree unless it were modified to raise taxes on the rich.
    I suspect that both parties are biding their time, and that not much will happen on tax reform until after the 2012 elections. Democrats are waiting for the Bush tax cuts to expire and use the new higher rates as the starting point in any negotiations over tax reform, and Republicans are hoping for a new president who will make the tax cuts permanent.
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  3. #263
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    Re: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I have been critical of the way things have been handled. However, there is a defining difference. Mr. Levin is describing the all but certain outcome of his posture as a "day of liberation." None of the sides in the negotiations--Congressional Republicans, Congressional Democrats, and President Obama--have expressed the reckless view that a failed outcome would somehow be an occasion for celebration. All of the participants, even as they have remained close to their maximum positions, have shown some flexibility.
    I'm not sure what you ascribe to Levin in implying his position will inevitably lead to a shutdown. I've heard nothing to suggest his posture is any different than that of the Republican leadership - accept no deal that raises taxes. On that issue, there has been absolutely no flexibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Ultimately, more than likely, one will see a smaller deal, no tax hikes (to accommodate the Republicans' needs), and little or perhaps no entitlement reform (to accommodate the Democrats' needs) tied to a smaller increase in the debt ceiling.
    I agree. Levin may complain about it not being enough, but I've seen nothing to indicate that he wouldn't accept it - that he'd advocate a shut down over such a deal. Such a deal is easily spinned as a Republican victory: as a result of sticking to their guns on taxes, Obama caves and goes back on his "no tax increase, no deal" pledge. Further, he gets much less money than he'd like to run the government through 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The more contentious issues that will have to be resolved for credible fiscal consolidation will be postponed. A self-inflicted crisis will be averted and a modest but not adequate downpayment on fiscal consolidation will be made. In effect, each side will yield some ground. Under such circumstances, it would not be too surprising if Mr. Levin, among some others, turned on the Congressional Republicans and accused them of capitulation.
    For better or worse, the most contentious issue has been the tax increase. As I stated above, Levin may criticize Republicans for not getting more from the deal, but I've seen nothing to indicate a belief that we stick out a partial shutdown over anything other than the tax increase/expansion issue.

  4. #264
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    Re: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I think they're interested in doing both. And that's OK with me.
    I'm sure it's OK with you and a lot of people. And there are probably other ways to increase revenue that would be OK with you and a lot of people.

    What's puzzling is Obama's insistence that no revenue-generating mechanism is acceptable unless it includes a tax hike on the rich.

  5. #265
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    Re: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I'm sure it's OK with you and a lot of people. And there are probably other ways to increase revenue that would be OK with you and a lot of people.

    What's puzzling is Obama's insistence that no revenue-generating mechanism is acceptable unless it includes a tax hike on the rich.
    I don't think he views them as unacceptable; I think he's worried that if he pursues tax reform now, it will essentially make the Bush tax cuts permanent. Whereas if he waits until after 2012 (if he's reelected) then he'll have his higher rates AND be able to use that as a starting point for "revenue-neutral" tax reform.
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  6. #266
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    Re: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Urging an unyielding theological line of no compromise whatsoever is exactly a championing of a failure to reach agreement. One cannot separate the consequences from the choice. Choices have consequences. Mr. Levin knows full well that a complete refusal to compromise will lead to a failed negotiation.
    Having addressed the points you brought up in regard to his "celebrating independence" -- that still doesn't answer my earlier question. If Levin's insistence that a deal not raise taxes amounts to "an unyielding theological line of no compromise," can't the same thing be said of Obama's insistence that a deal require the raising of taxes? Is the difference that you believe Levin is true to his word but that Obama really doesn't mean what he's been so adamant about in public? It's greatly irresponsible for Levin to say he's willing to endure a shutdown to maintain his ultimatum, but no big deal if Obama implies the exact same thing? Would you suggest Levin forego the "bring it on" attitude and instead adopt a more responsible approach like the fear tactics Obama is using on social security?

    If anything, Obama's position is more radical than Levin's. There's no logic to raising taxes for the sake of raising taxes - we do so because we expect it to bring in revenue. Obama has thus far turned down any deal that doesn't contain a tax increase - whether or not that deal creates the same or more revenue than his proposal. A tax increase is just one way to increase revenue. Insisting a deal employ that method is more restrictive, more threatening to compromise than insisting a deal exclude it.

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    Re: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Defense Spending is 18% of the Budget, Entitlements are 60%. Keep up the lies man, keep up the lies.
    What matters most is that it's being stolen from those that paid into it so they'd have it to help them out in their old age. The powers that be have been dipping into it for decades. They rob Peter to pay Paul. Trouble is, Peter never gets paid back. They use it for whatever they darn well feel like using it for. And the people be damned. It's our money, but what the heck....Who the hell do we think we are to question where it goes? And to even want some of it back.... Why gracious, we only earned it, that's all....
    Last edited by Binky; 07-13-11 at 06:51 PM.

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    Re: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

    Silent sobs
    Invisible tears
    Life enveloped
    in unspoken fears.

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    Re: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

    Hmmmm........maybe it's just me but it sure sounded like a whole outhouse full of bullpucky and two stepping to me. But then, I'm only a concerned citizen, so I guess my thoughts and ideas aren't worth didily squat....

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    Educator Sgt Meowenstein's Avatar
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    Re: Obama says he cannot guarantee Social Security checks will go out on August 3

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    Wait.. wait... you REALLY think that:

    The GOP isn't willing to back off of a position - so they're resuding to comprimise..
    ...but...
    The Dems aren't willing to back off a position - but they're WILLING to comprimise?

    Better not have a go at that dining room table - it might argue you into a corner...
    You: Obama won't compromise.

    Me: Obama offered 4 trillion in cuts that are deeply unpopular with his base and the GOP refuses to budge from their position.

    You: Obama won't compromise.

    Me: Compromise is a two-way street. Obama offered cuts, the GOP offered nothing.

    You: Obama won't compromise.

    Like I said, I'd be better off talking to a dining room table. You're a one-trick partisan hack with absolutely no clue and no intention of ceding any point no matter how glaringly wrong you are. Sit down, turn on your Glenn Beck and rant your ignorant drivel to somebody that actually buys into your drool-cup-worthy nonsense. I'm done with your ignorant hackery.



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