• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

Status
Not open for further replies.
teamosil said:
The stock market, for example, is up 80% since he took office. 80 freaking percent. It was actually DOWN over Bush's ENTIRE TERM...
Click to expand...
If I'm not mistaken, Bush and Hoover are the only presidents in U.S. history to leave office with the stock market lower than it was when they started.
 
teamosil said:
It isn't like the president has a switch on his desk that he can flip to "make jobs" and boom, the entire economy immediately reverses direction you realize. It's a long, slow process. First you stop the bleeding. That takes something like 12-24 months. Then you can start to heal the damage done. That takes a heck of a long time when the damage is that extensive.
Click to expand...

As I've said before, Corporate America lost billions over the course of a year, some in a mere 24-48 hours! What we're seeing take place right now in the world of finance is investment banks/investment groups/wealthy individuals are recouping their loses. Banks, hedge fund managers, etc., are building up liquidity while individuals or rebuilding their financial portfolios. Businesses are "retooling" upgrading equipment, etc., etc. And if you take a look at Recovery.org, you'll find that many states are preparing to start putting people back to work. Raising the debt limit and cutting spending (including eliminating some big multi-million dollar tax loopholes) will go a long way towards building confidence within the financial system. If Congress does their part, the economy will start to pickup.
 
Conservative said:
Here we go again, different thread same misinformation. Jobs have been created and should have been created by spending over a trillion dollars. BLS shows the net affect is a job loss. there were 142.2 million people employed when Obama took office and there are 139.3 million now. Where are those jobs?

When Obama took office there were 12.6 million unemployed and now there are 15.1 million, so where are the jobs?

BLS.gov
Click to expand...

It doesn't seem like you're responding to what I said. Yeah- we continued to lose jobs for sure. The economy doesn't switch from steadily collapsing to strong growth overnight. That takes a long time and a lot of work just to stop the collapse, then it takes a long time after that to build things back up to where they were before the collapse. So, yeah, of course we still have more people unemployed now than before the collapse... Look at the graph. We won't be right-side up again until there is as much bar above that line as there is below. That's still at least 18 months out at the absolute best.

I don't think you appreciate the devestation Bush wrought on the US economy. It was the largest recession since the great depression. The great depression took a decade to fix.
 
Objective Voice said:
As I've said before, Corporate America lost billions over the course of a year, some in a mere 24-48 hours! What we're seeing take place right now in the world of finance is investment banks/investment groups/wealthy individuals are recouping their loses. Banks, hedge fund managers, etc., are building up liquidity while individuals or rebuilding their financial portfolios. Businesses are "retooling" upgrading equipment, etc., etc. And if you take a look at Recovery.org, you'll find that many states are preparing to start putting people back to work. Raising the debt limit and cutting spending (including eliminating some big multi-million dollar tax loopholes) will go a long way towards building confidence within the financial system. If Congress does their part, the economy will start to pickup.
Click to expand...

In addition because of very low interest rates banks without toxic mortgages are making big bucks because they are able to get money at low rates or almost zero rates and lend it at a good profit.
 
Conservative said:
Jobs have been created and should have been created by spending over a trillion dollars.
Click to expand...
According to you, 3.5 million jobs were saved/created as a result of the stimulus plan...

"Don't you just love the Obama results? 15 million unemployed, 3.5 trillion added to the debt, 821 billion stimulus program that created or "saved" jobs that cost the taxpayer $228,000 each. Those are the results "your" President generated and why he got shellacked in 2010." ~ Conservative
​
 
Conservative said:
In addition because of very low interest rates banks without toxic mortgages are making big bucks because they are able to get money at low rates or almost zero rates and lend it at a good profit.
Click to expand...

It's not just banks that didn't have toxic assets. Some of those banks who the Treasury took their toxic assets off their balance sheets are making money, too. But yes, as long as interest rates remain low, banks and other financial institutions including the Treasury will slowly but surely begin to dig their way out of this economic mess. Still, we have to be careful not to just rely on low interest rates alone especially in the bond market. Eventually, those bonds will mature and folks will insist on getting paid. And then what?

Remember: T-Bills are making up the difference between low income tax revenues and the debt. Too many bonds out there without tax revenue and you creat another debt crisis.
 
Last edited:
teamosil said:
It amounts to intentionally destabilizing the economy
Click to expand...

i wouldn't go that far

California budget: Democrats pass austerity budget - Los Angeles Times

Cuomo budget: $10 billion deficit cut, no new taxes, layoffs likely

Jerry Brown Budget Cuts | California budget: Gov. Jerry Brown approves cuts to services for poor, sick and elderly - Los Angeles Times

MA House votes to restrict unions - Boston.com

New Jersey Assembly Passes Bill That Requires Public Workers' Unions To Pay More For Benefits - WPIX

Emanuel Unveils Major Budget Cut On First Full Day « CBS Chicago

Governor Pat Quinn signs Illinois education reform bill into law, new rules effect school days, teacher strikes, tenure | abc7chicago.com

Detroit Moves Against Unions - WSJ.com

Union Deal Defeated; Gov. Malloy Pledges To Cut State Workers - CTnow

Rahm Emanuel sends layoff notices to city workers in union showdown - Chicago Sun-Times

But, the bigger issue is all the actual deals that they turned down
Click to expand...

every hour that goes by the CUTS get bigger by trillions

all sides

the gang of six is suddenly bragging this morning about 3.75T of cuts that weren't there YESTERDAY

boehner's ccp GREW over the weekend from dollar for dollar (2.4T in cuts in return for a 2.4 lift) suddenly to 5.8T in cuts for the same 2.4 of credit card

CUTS are de rigueur, from albany to sacto, chicago and madison in between

and the RAGE is only growing

patience, peeps
 
Conservative said:
The economic collapse? GDP growth from 9.9 trillion to 14.4 trillion is a collapse? The credit market collapsed but not the economy, it still grew.
Click to expand...
Not after the market collapsed, it didn't. GDP growth for 2008 was negative 100 million. GDP growth for 2009 was negative 348 billion. How on Earth do you categorize that as anything but the economy collapsing?

Keep in mind, the next biggest annual drop of GDP in U.S. history was 1982 and that was "only" 116 billion.

GDP falls 348 billion and you claim the economy wasn't collapsing. :roll:
 
teamosil said:
more jobs have been created than lost each month for months now
Click to expand...

not even enough to keep up with population growth which, considering where we are and all we've been thru, is pathetic

Nearly two years after the economic recovery officially began, job creation continues to stagger at the slowest post-recession rate since the Great Depression.

The nation has 5% fewer jobs today — a loss of 7 million — than it did when the recession began in December 2007. That is by far the worst performance of job generation following any of the dozen recessions since the 1930s.

In the past, the economy recovered lost jobs 13 months on average after a recession. If this were a typical recovery, nearly 10 million more people would be working today than when the recession officially ended in June 2009.
Click to expand...

Job creation limps along after recession - USATODAY.com

But all the numbers have been moving the right direction ever since Obama took office.
Click to expand...

wow

Economy in U.S. Grew 1.8% in First Quarter - Bloomberg
 
Last edited:
The Prof said:
i wouldn't go that far

California budget: Democrats pass austerity budget - Los Angeles Times

Cuomo budget: $10 billion deficit cut, no new taxes, layoffs likely

Jerry Brown Budget Cuts | California budget: Gov. Jerry Brown approves cuts to services for poor, sick and elderly - Los Angeles Times

MA House votes to restrict unions - Boston.com

New Jersey Assembly Passes Bill That Requires Public Workers' Unions To Pay More For Benefits - WPIX

Emanuel Unveils Major Budget Cut On First Full Day « CBS Chicago

Governor Pat Quinn signs Illinois education reform bill into law, new rules effect school days, teacher strikes, tenure | abc7chicago.com

Detroit Moves Against Unions - WSJ.com

Union Deal Defeated; Gov. Malloy Pledges To Cut State Workers - CTnow

Rahm Emanuel sends layoff notices to city workers in union showdown - Chicago Sun-Times



every hour that goes by the CUTS get bigger by trillions

all sides

the gang of six is suddenly bragging this morning about 3.75T of cuts that weren't there YESTERDAY

boehner's ccp GREW over the weekend from dollar for dollar (2.4T in cuts in return for a 2.4 lift) suddenly to 5.8T in cuts for the same 2.4 of credit card

CUTS are de rigueur, from albany to sacto, chicago and madison in between

and the RAGE is only growing

patience, peeps
Click to expand...

Good DD, Prof, but posting to people who unless you read the entire article to them they will ignore it. Liberals prefer the audio version of anything thus the leftwing media reports read to them which always distorts reality.
 
Conservative said:
I did read it and agree with much of it. Did you read what Democrat Steve Wynn posted today?

Wynn CEO Goes On Epic Anti-Obama Rant On Company Conference Call
Click to expand...
Yes, I read it...wouldn't expect anything less coming out of Vegas or Nevada; that city and the entire state has a very high unemployment rate. So, of course they're alittle tic'd off right about now. Vegas relies on tourism; and when people don't have that kind of disposable income for leisure time activities...

'Nuf Said.

Conservative said:
The Fed control of the money supply and pumping billions into the economy.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say "control", but you got the 2nd part right.
 
Last edited:
Objective Voice said:
Yes, I read it...wouldn't expect anything less coming out of Vegas or Nevada; that city and the entire state has a very high unemployment rate. So, of course they're alittle tic'd off right about now. Vegas relies on tourism; and when people don't have that kind of disposable income for leisure time activities...

'Nuf Said.
Click to expand...

Doubt that raising taxes on individuals is going to help that situation nor is it going to put 24 million unemployed and under employed people back to work
 
Conservative said:
No true tax cut is spending. Most of Obama's so called tax cuts were expenses thus weren't cuts. Calling it a tax cut doesn't make it one. The items highlighted in bold are tax cuts and that doesn't add up to 237 billion. All the items not in bold were funded by line items in the budget thus were expenses. Keep trying Pb
Click to expand...

True, proposals that reduce taxes are not tax cuts :roll:
 
Conservative said:
The economic collapse? GDP growth from 9.9 trillion to 14.4 trillion is a collapse? The credit market collapsed but not the economy, it still grew. We seem to have a lot of very misinformed people here. Go to BEA.gov and see that economic collapse you are claiming happened.
Click to expand...

Rightwingers believe that the economy is doing fine, even if millions have lost their jobs. Just as long as the rich keeping making money.
 
teamosil said:
Why would anybody vote for a party that is intentionally putting political appeal ahead of their own policy agenda? What would you even be voting for? Nothing? Just a brand with no actual policy? That's bizarre.

As for the nonsense about Obama, obviously you aren't paying close attention... For example, the number of new unemployment claims shot up every month for the last two years of Bush until it was around 700,000 new people unemployed every month. That number began falling immediately after Obama took office and more jobs have been created than lost each month for months now. Of course the economy doesn't turn around in just a year or two after the kind of devestation Bush created. it takes a long time. But all the numbers have been moving the right direction ever since Obama took office. The stock market, for example, is up 80% since he took office. 80 freaking percent. It was actually DOWN over Bush's ENTIRE TERM... And you guys want to go back to Bush? Come on.
Click to expand...

Actually, while job growth did increase once Obama took office, it has been falling since the repubs took over the house

*GOP GOVERNORS/Elected Officials Are Responsible For State Joblessness & UNEMPLOYMENT | Sabotaging America’s Economy For Political Gain | 3CHICSPOLITICO
 
sangha said:
Because some people lose their train of thought. Small things tend to get lost easier than larger things
Click to expand...
Thank you for helping to clear up Boo's mistake.
 
Conservative said:
Here we go again, different thread same misinformation. Jobs have been created and should have been created by spending over a trillion dollars. BLS shows the net affect is a job loss. there were 142.2 million people employed when Obama took office and there are 139.3 million now. Where are those jobs?

When Obama took office there were 12.6 million unemployed and now there are 15.1 million, so where are the jobs?
Click to expand...

The were destroyed by bush*'s economic policies, which according to rightwingers like you, was supposed to create jobs. Taxes were cut, so where's the jobs?

Bush On Jobs: The Worst Track Record On Record - Real Time Economics - WSJ



BLS.gov[/QUOTE]
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom