• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

Status
Not open for further replies.
lester.jpg


Everybody eat your PEAS!!! We got to tax the rich for my programs.
 
Conservative said:
I don't see an answer to the question and I doubt that you are a true patriot for a true patriot understands what made this country great and it wasn't the massive growth in the size of the Federal govt. Now explain to me why I should pay for your healthcare and SS? You do realize that taxpayers fund the govt including your job.
Click to expand...

Why should I pay for your police? For you fire department? C'mon Con....why should I pay for your libraries or your parks?
 
disneydude said:
When you act like children....sometimes you have to be treated like children. Sorry....that's just life.
Click to expand...

Obama needs the peas more since he is a cry baby :2bigcry:
 
Last edited:
disneydude said:
When you act like children....sometimes you have to be treated like children. Sorry....that's just life.
Click to expand...



So who's acting like childeren, the ones who think we need to reign in spending, or the spoled brats who think the answer to our credit problem is more spending, borrowing, and getting up and throwing a tantrum during negotiations?
 
haymarket said:
You need to read more

here is an example

George Reisman's Blog on Economics, Politics, Society, and Culture: How to Eliminate Social Security and Medicare*

and more

Cato's Leninist Campaign To End Social Security | Thom Hartmann - News & info from the #1 progressive radio show

and a leading candidate for the 2012 GOP nomination

Bachmann’s Plan: To Deal With Debt, We Must ‘Wean Everybody’ Off Social Security, Medicare | ThinkProgress

lew rockwells wonderland site always can be counted on for lunacy

Ending Social Security: Part 1 by Michael S. Rozeff

so much crap he needed two toilets for the screed

Ending Social Security: Part 2 by Michael S. Rozeff

and more from our libertarian friends ... or at least your libertarian friends

ISIL – It's Time To End Social Security

you want more? I can do this all day long.
Click to expand...

So two personal blogs and some equally obscure Left Wing site is a "plan to end Social Security"?

It is being discussed, certainly, and as it should be in order the get America's fiscal house in some sort of order, but there is no serious plan. Do you really not understand the seriousness of your situation?
 
disneydude said:
You seem to have no problem "legislating" big brother responsibility, so why not?
Click to expand...

You seem to have a problem answering direct questions. How about that 11.9% LA Unemployment, how much are those people paying in taxes?
 
disneydude said:
When you act like children....sometimes you have to be treated like children. Sorry....that's just life.
Click to expand...

True. And everything most of this board is throwing against raising taxes is just an attempt to muddy the issues. The truth of what has happened to the wealth of this country. The wealthiest people on this board only have holdings. *they say* They don't have true wealth, i.e., intelligence, wisdom, insight, compassion, comprehension; the list goes on. But what they do have, they intend to keep. If all I had put me on the same playing field as Ebenezer Scrooge, I'd be hanging on for dear life as well.
 
Last edited:
disneydude said:
Why should I pay for your police? For you fire department? C'mon Con....why should I pay for your libraries or your parks?
Click to expand...

You don't, I live in TX. You seem to be confused over state and federal taxes and responsibility. You really should learn what your tax dollars fund and who? Obama must be proud, look at this LA Resident that bought into the Obama rhetoric of shared sacrifice and believe the people of LA with their taxes funds the services in TX. Wow, how did we get so far off track in our education system?
 
Last edited:
Conservative said:
So because President's Reagan and Both Bushs spent plenty that gives Obama the right to put that spending on steroids? Obama's 2010 budget was 700 billion more than the Bush 2008 budget.
Click to expand...

The $700 was mostly from bills (ex TARP) that were passed before Obama became president. They were passed with republican votes, and signed by the republican presidunce.

IOW, it was all Obamas' fault :roll:
 
Grant said:
Again, the title of the thread is " Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes".

Thus the philosophies which led to this greatest debt in US history could be discussed.

Marxism was given as one excuse and, given Obama's history, not completely without justification.

To what political philosophy do you attribute his fiscal madness?
Click to expand...

We will also discuss the economic policies of the right, which got us into this mess. Don't like it?

Too bad
 
Conservative said:
When you have a budget problem do you first find a way to raise more revenue or do you check what expenses can be cut? Stop with the ideological rants and think.
Click to expand...

Um, you do both, if you know anything about business.
 
BDBoop said:
True. And everything most of this board is throwing against raising taxes is just an attempt to muddy the issues. The truth of what has happened to the wealth of this country. The wealthiest people on this board only have holdings. *they say* They don't have true wealth, i.e., intelligence, wisdom, insight, compassion, comprehension; the list goes on. But what they do have, they intend to keep. If all I had put me on the same playing field as Ebenezer Scrooge, I'd be hanging on for dear life as well.
Click to expand...

Those who don't want to give you their money to spend on yourself are Scrooges?

Why not have a temper tantrum, or hold your breath until you turn blue?

That should balance the budget.

If you ever have one that is.
 
haymarket said:
Lets see ..... I would welcome the GOP right wing fanatics drunk on libertarian kool-aid led by Eric Can't..er to do what they look like they desire to do. Sometimes you have to smell the crap in order to motivate the energy needed to flush it away.
Click to expand...

There's no way the rightwingers are going to not raise the debt ceiling. It would cost their corporate masters too much. They have given their GOP stooges their orders, and they will comply. And once they do, the rightwing dupes will flood DP with reasons for why they were right to raise the debt ceiling
 
Swizz said:
Um, you do both, if you know anything about business.
Click to expand...

Yes, you always do both but you start first with defined spending cuts and budget cuts. Still waiting for a liberal to explain to me how raising taxes puts 24 million unemployed and underemployed Americans back to work paying their "fair share" of taxes or the 65 million Americans that are paying Zero in taxes now.
 
Grant said:
So two personal blogs and some equally obscure Left Wing site is a "plan to end Social Security"?

It is being discussed, certainly, and as it should be in order the get America's fiscal house in some sort of order, but there is no serious plan. Do you really not understand the seriousness of your situation?
Click to expand...

One of the two leading contenders for the GOP 2012 nomination is obscure to you?!?!?!?!?!

Amazing.

Ten years ago, no mainstream politician was discussing many of the far right actions which have taken place in legislatures around this country in the last few months. You had to go to lew rockwells site and cato and other Right wing libertarian sites to get how they were setting the stage for the attacks on unions and public workers, taking away the right to vote in local communities, imposing economic martial law and other right wing wetdreams which have come true.
 
sangha

Unless we can present an officially notarized and cetrified 567 page detailed plan signed by the Boner and Chinless McConnell in their own blood, it will mean nothing to them.
 
Last edited:
chart.jpg
[/QUOTE]

cpwill said:
In 8 of the 12 years the Republicans controlled the spending, the deficit went down the following year and the 4 years it went up were all in the years immediately after the 9-11 attack. Despite the huge blow to the economy and the expenses of fighting two wars, deficit spending peaked in 2004 and was declining sharply until the Democrats regained control of the House in 2007.

Meanwhile, in 18 of the 24 years the Democrats controlled the federal purse strings, the deficit rose the following year....
Click to expand...

Have you any idea what happened to the financial markets in the late summer of 2007? Events that began to run downhill then culmulnated in the collaspe in the housing market of 2008. From the book, "Too Big to Fail", by Andrew Ross Sorkin, pages 89 and 90, referring to events as they began to unfold beginning on August 7, 2007:

By now it was clear even to [FedResv Chairman] Bernanke that he had failed to gauge the severity of the situation. As late as June 5, he had declared in a speech that "at this point, the troubles in the subprime sector seem unlikely to seriously spill over to the broader economy or the financial system." The housing problems, he had thought, was limited to the increase in subprime loans to borrowers with poor credit. Although the subprime market had mushroomed to $2 trillion, it was still just a fraction of the overall $14 trillion U.S. mortgage market.

But that analysis did not take into account a number of other critical factors, such as the fact that the link between the housing market and the financial system was further complicated by the growing use of exotic derivatives. Securities whose income and value came from a pool of residential mortgages were being amalgamated, sliced up, and reconfigured again, and soon became the underpinnings of new investment products marketed as collateralized debt obligations (CDOs).

The way that firms like a JP Morgan or a Lehman Brothers now operated bore little resemblance to the way banks had traditionally done business. No longer would a bank simply make a loan and keep it on its books. Now lending was about origination - establishing the first link in a chain of securitization that spread risk of the loan among dozens if not hundreds and thousands of parties. Although securitization supposedly reduced risk and increased liquidity, what it meant in reality was that many insitutitions and investors were now interconnected, for better or for worse. A municiple pension fund in Norway might have subprime mortgages from California in its portfolio and not even realize it. Making matters worse, many financial firms had borrowed heavily against these securities, using what is known as leverage to amplify their returns. This only increased the pain when they began to lose value.

Regulators around the world were having trouble understanding how the pieces all fit together. [Alan] Greenspan would later admit that even he hadn't compreheneded exactly what was happening. "I've got some fairly heavy background in mathematics," he state [in 2005] after he stepped down from the Fed. "But some of the complexities of some of the instruments that were going into CDOs bewilders me. I didn't understand what they were doing or how they actually go the types of returns out of the mezzanines and the various traches of the CDO that they did. And i figured if I didn't understand it and I had access to a couple hundred PhDs, how the rest of the world is going to understand it sort of bewildered me".

He was not alone. Even the CEOs of the firms that sold these products had no better comprehension of it all.
Click to expand...

As I've stated from the very beginning of the housing crisis, CORPORATE AMERICAN COULD NOT FIX ITSELF! Therefore, it was incumbant upon the Federal Reserve/Treasury to try and fix the mess the private sector created and did not fully understand itself. TARP was that effort to place liquidity back into the private sector, halting short-sells, bring some measure of confidence back into the financial system. The spike you see in domestic spending beginning in 2008 is a direct result of the massive "capital injection plan" the Fed used to stablize the markets and "stop the bleeding".
 
Last edited:
ReverendHellh0und said:
So who's acting like childeren, the ones who think we need to reign in spending, or the spoled brats who think the answer to our credit problem is more spending, borrowing, and getting up and throwing a tantrum during negotiations?
Click to expand...

The babies are the rightwingers who say they want to cut spending, but ran like little girls with a spider in their hair when Obama proposed additional spending cuts.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom