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Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

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It was the repubs in congress who passed Medicare D, not bush*. And the rate of increase in govt spending was faster under repubs than under dems

Sorry, this is simply untrue. Red posted the numbers, so let's agree that hundreds of billions do not equal Trillions! No sir, Pelosi, Reid, and the Obama pen are responsible for stepping on the gas when it comes to reckless spending.

j-mac
 
Inflation was at very low levels at that point. The rest of your post did not address anything I said and is just a random collection of typical right wing talking points.

Well, you can dismiss them all you want, but reality is what most people see, and Trillions do not equal Billions in any stretch of the imagination.

Neither does sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting la la la la la....

j-mac
 
Sorry, this is simply untrue. Red posted the numbers, so let's agree that hundreds of billions do not equal Trillions! No sir, Pelosi, Reid, and the Obama pen are responsible for stepping on the gas when it comes to reckless spending.

j-mac

My numbers do not disagree with what he said. In point of fact, most of the debt was created under republican presidents. That is a factual statement. Debt has, historically, increased much faster under republican presidents. Whether Obama changes that remains to be seen, though at this point it looks quite possible.
 
Sorry, this is simply untrue. Red posted the numbers, so let's agree that hundreds of billions do not equal Trillions! No sir, Pelosi, Reid, and the Obama pen are responsible for stepping on the gas when it comes to reckless spending.

j-mac

As the chart I posted shows, it was the repubs who accumulated most of the national debt. So let's agree that the repubs are responsible for most our debt.
 
repubs have historically increased the debt faster then dems. That's why 75% of the debt was accumulated under repub presidents

Natl_Debt_Chart.jpg

Could I see a source for your tilted little chart there?


j-mac
 
The reality is that Clinton left our budget with a surplus, which bush* wasted no time destroying. wrt "all spending" you can blame Reagan for some of that, and the republican congress for some of the rest.

The reality is you're full of ****. Every time you say this your assumed IQ drops 25 points.

The Myth of the Clinton Surplus

Every fycking year that man was in office our national debt went up, and our deficit NEVER hit zero, much less a surplus. So where is this ****ing budget surplus you keep speaking of???????
 
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As the chart I posted shows, it was the repubs who accumulated most of the national debt. So let's agree that the repubs are responsible for most our debt.

And you failed to give us a source for your chart which only leads me to believe that they are not facts, but more revision of actual numbers.

j-mac
 
The reality is you're full of ****. Every time you say this your assumed IQ drops 25 points.

The Myth of the Clinton Surplus

Every fycking year that man was in office our national debt went up, and our deficit NEVER hit zero, much less a surplus. So where is this ****ing budget surplus you keep speaking of???????

bush* spent it.
 
in fact, any American citizen who moves his factory to another country, thereby putting hundreds if not thousands of people out of work in the USA, should have their American citizenship REVOKED.

yes. far better if they go out of business so that all of their employees lose their jobs! plus we get the side benefit of higher costs-of-living for poor people. yay!
 
It cites its' source right at the bottom of the chart

I enlarged it several times, and even used reading glasses to try and make it out, but no it doesn't clearly state where this chart came from, or who is using it...Now where did you come up with it?

j-mac
 
I enlarged it several times, and even used reading glasses to try and make it out, but no it doesn't clearly state where this chart came from, or who is using it...Now where did you come up with it?

j-mac

Bureau of the Public Debt, Dept of the Treasury
 
Some of the rich who are not quite rich enough pay a lot in taxes. Once you get rich enough, you're tax rate goes down because the laws are set for the very rich to use many forms of tax loophole to not pay tax on it. As such, income is income. It should all be treated the same.

Excuse Me ... could you please show me where in the tax code .. it says if you make more then X amount .. you can take deductions that a person making Y amount cannot take Now it must be in there .. but I haven't been able to find it yet ..
 
Bureau of the Public Debt, Dept of the Treasury

No, no....Who republished this graph...Where are you gleaning your info on this?

Even if I am to take at face value this graph, you want me to hold that Geithner, the man that Obama trots out to make excuses for him as some paragon of the truth? Really....lol


j-mac
 
Thanks for demonstrating the typical leftwing mind set. Its to punish the "filthy rich" (meaning anyone making more than 200K a year) that motivates the envious left. BTW the tax burden on everyone else has gone way down while the top 2%'s share of the tax burden has GONE UP

And thank YOU TD, for demonstrating the typical mindset of the GOP today......Tax cuts for the wealthy on the back of the middle and working classes. America is getting a perfect picture of which party represents which interests.
 
You have better numbers?

no I don't .. . I just know what I'm spending in the grocery stores .. and other needed expenses to survive .. and I'm sorry .. it seems like a hole lot more then 1.6 % more .. that was the only reason I asked if you really believed those numbers
 
No, no....Who republished this graph...Where are you gleaning your info on this?

Even if I am to take at face value this graph, you want me to hold that Geithner, the man that Obama trots out to make excuses for him as some paragon of the truth? Really....lol


j-mac

The chart lists the source of the data used. If you think there's something wrong with the chart, then use the data to refute it.

And I have no idea what Geithner has to do with this. He didn't make the chart or compile the data.
 
IMO, over coming days, the participants in the negotiations need to set aside their maximum positions, recognize the needs of all the parties, and focus on areas where agreement can be reached. The focus should be on making offers that have a realistic chance of being viewed as acceptable by all the parties. That means setting aside tax changes. It means postponing credible entitlement reform. It means focusing on smaller spending reductions and disproportionately in the discretionary spending area. That is not an optimal or credible fiscal consolidation approach, but because so much time has been exhausted on a badly-designed negotiating process that allowed each side to begin from its maximum position, it is increasingly a matter of necessity. Personally, I would prefer a credible fiscal consolidation path, but when the choice is between something less or fiscal crisis, the former outcome is the better one. Otherwise, more time will be consumed on process and the deadline will draw closer.

Unfortunately, some elements are seeking to preclude any kind of deal. For example, yesterday one talk show host hailed the prospect of a failure to raise the debt ceiling as a new 'Independence Day' of sorts. He declared:

August 2nd will be the new July 4th, this time a day of liberation. Liberation and freedom from massive government spending that has put us and our children in a continuous debt.

That statement is breathtaking in its ignorance. It shows a total lack of comprehension as to the impact of the federal government's having to instantly cut its cash outflows by some 40%. It shows a complete lack of understanding of what such cuts as a share of GDP would mean.

Immediately eliminating that deficit would result in a shock that would be twice the magnitude of the recent severe recession from which the U.S. emerged, if only that spending were involved. The shock would be greater, on account of a multiplier, rise in public and private cost of capital, and financial sector distress.

An effort to ration spending that would also give priority to servicing debt would also adopt the rosy assumption that debt service would essentially consist of making interest payments. Under such an assumption, there would be no risk of default. That may not be the case. The increased risk associated with U.S. debt would probably lead to some share of the debt not being rolled over. That could then mean principal on maturing debt would have to be repaid. Secretary of Treasury Geithner noted in a letter to Senator DeMint that about $500 billion in Treasury securities would mature in August. If one considers some share of principal having to be paid, then the pool of funds for remaining obligations (Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Defense, and myriad discretionary expenditures) would be even smaller.

There is also the problem of mismatches between monthly receipts (revenue) and monthly expenditures/maturing debt. Monthly revenue and monthly expenditures/maturing debt could be quite divergent. That could exacerbate an already difficult management process.

In the end, failure to raise the debt ceiling would be anything but a "day of liberation." It would be a day the nation's policy makers demonstrated an inability to make necessary choices. It would be a day that showed that the U.S. is a much riskier country than its current AAA rating implies. It would be a day that the U.S. lost significant leadership credibility, and that loss of credibility would extend well beyond fiscal matters.

Afterward, even when the issue would be resolved, the nation would be left with higher interest rates on account of the new risk environment. With domestic nonfinancial debt of $36.333 trillion, the nation as a whole would pay just over $180 billion per year in extra interest were rates to rise 50 basis points and about $363 billion in extra interest were rates to rise 100 basis points (some timing issues, but that debt continues to increase at a multiple of GDP). That would be equivalent to 1.2% and 2.4% of 2011 Q1 GDP respectively. Those added interest charges would lead to a lower long-term economic growth rate. The nation's fiscal position would be adversely impacted (slower revenue growth and higher debt service costs). Worst of all, this outcome would have been wholly avoidable. The crisis and its aftermath would have been completely self-inflicted.
 
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no I don't .. . I just know what I'm spending in the grocery stores .. and other needed expenses to survive .. and I'm sorry .. it seems like a hole lot more then 1.6 % more .. that was the only reason I asked if you really believed those numbers

Inflation involves a lot more than your grocery bill.
 
And thank YOU TD, for demonstrating the typical mindset of the GOP today......Tax cuts for the wealthy on the back of the middle and working classes. America is getting a perfect picture of which party represents which interests.

"on the backs"....??? Tell me other than this being nothing of substance, how allowing people that make over $200K per year, many of whom are small businesses that employ 80% of this country's "Working class" to keep more of their own hard earned money is anything but a positive in the long run?

j-mac
 
no I don't .. . I just know what I'm spending in the grocery stores .. and other needed expenses to survive .. and I'm sorry .. it seems like a hole lot more then 1.6 % more .. that was the only reason I asked if you really believed those numbers

So in other words, you think you are more accurate the the government because you can see the little picture. When you can document your claim, feel free to get back to me.
 
"on the backs"....??? Tell me other than this being nothing of substance, how allowing people that make over $200K per year, many of whom are small businesses that employ 80% of this country's "Working class" to keep more of their own hard earned money is anything but a positive in the long run?

j-mac

When they can earn their money without using public resources like the roads, the Post Office, electricity, the internet, etc then they can keep ALL of the money. Until then, we're taking OUR share of the money.
 
And thank YOU TD, for demonstrating the typical mindset of the GOP today......Tax cuts for the wealthy on the back of the middle and working classes. America is getting a perfect picture of which party represents which interests.

have a simple question, if tax increases are suddenly so important to Obama and the liberal left … then why in the hell didn't they just let the Bush tax cuts expire … they had the majority in the house, the senate .. and a liberal president …. and to top that .. they didn't need a vote .. the cuts were set to expire .. no vote meant that they would have expired .. instead .. democrats voted to extent the very tax cuts they are now wanting to do away with … makes no sense to me .
 
No, no....Who republished this graph...Where are you gleaning your info on this?

Even if I am to take at face value this graph, you want me to hold that Geithner, the man that Obama trots out to make excuses for him as some paragon of the truth? Really....lol


j-mac

I did some looking, and the origin of the chart seems to be from the Los Angeles Free Net web site. No I am not making that up.
 
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