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Thread: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

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  2. #52
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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Polotick View Post
    When the Deepwater Horizon drilling platform set off the worst oil spill at sea in American history, it was flying the flag of the Marshall Islands. Registering there allowed the rig’s owner to significantly reduce its American taxes.

    The owner, Transocean, moved its corporate headquarters from Houston to the Cayman Islands in 1999 and then to Switzerland in 2008, maneuvers that also helped it avoid taxes.

    At the same time, BP was reaping sizable tax benefits from leasing the rig. According to a letter sent in June to the Senate Finance Committee, the company used a tax break for the oil industry to write off 70 percent of the rent for Deepwater Horizon — a deduction of more than $225,000 a day since the lease began.

    With federal officials now considering a new tax on petroleum production to pay for the cleanup, the industry is fighting the measure, warning that it will lead to job losses and higher gasoline prices, as well as an increased dependence on foreign oil.

    But an examination of the American tax code indicates that oil production is among the most heavily subsidized businesses, with tax breaks available at virtually every stage of the exploration and extraction process.

    According to the most recent study by the Congressional Budget Office, released in 2005, capital investments like oil field leases and drilling equipment are taxed at an effective rate of 9 percent, significantly lower than the overall rate of 25 percent for businesses in general and lower than virtually any other industry.



    We can start here.
    how about raising taxes on the 47% who have an effective federal tax rate of ZERO or the 60% who get more from the government than they pay in taxes?



  3. #53
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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyteRash View Post
    but IIRC, GDP growth had been stalled for years while spending was still climbing at a normal rate(out of control without restriction or retribution).. we barely missed meeting the requirements for a recession for a long time before obama..
    Huh?? Your whole post is wrong.

    Had GDP been "stalled for years" a long time before Obama we'd be talking about the second great depression we had. GDP had grown pretty steadily since the early 90's. We didn't "barely miss meeting requirements for a recession a long time before Obama" - the recession started in the tail end of the Bush admin. Finally, spending hasn't climbed at a normal rate. Under Bush, it increased 2% over 7 years (from 18% of GDP to 20% of GDP,) which greatly disillusioned the conservative base - it then skyrocketed to 25% in 2009 and has remained at historical levels.

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    While I might agree with some of what you say … there are two things I would like to point out … first, who do you think that middle class is working for ? Might it not be for those evil filthy corporations making all that money ? You don't have to like it, but they are the ones that create jobs, that increases the middle class, that allow people to spend more to create more jobs, the simple truth of this is you can't have a middle class with out them .. . and they can't expand without a larger middle class. It's a circle .. we need both …... rather then just taxing them .. might a better solution be to sit down with them .. find out what is holding them back from hiring and expanding .. and work on those things that are holding them back …...

    Point two …. …. when you tax them more (that includes taking away subsidies) that money just goes into the equation as a cost,, their profit margin is going to remain the same, and what you will see at the pump is a increase in cost …. which in turn is going to mean higher profits for the oil companies .. because again .. there is always going to be people buying gas and oil products at least in the foreseeable future
    No matter how much money you give corporations, if no one is buying their product, then no jobs are created. When the Average American has money to spend on those products, then demand rises, production rises, jobs are created.

    Starting from the top and working your way down won't work, businesses are investing that money or hoarding in case things get worse, as in Americans have no money to spend on their latest gizmo.

    Might it not be for those evil filthy corporations
    Either show where I said that or stick to the debate at hand. Here in the real world fully stocked shelves that are full of merchandise that no one is buying simply will not do a thing for jobs or the economy.

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Polotick View Post
    Or, we could close loopholes and cut spending both, and possibly even get things back on track even faster. I know, I'm supposed to be on one side or the other screeching about how the other side is doing it wrong.

    I fail.
    You don't fail, I was one of the few that was for letting all the tax cuts expired .... I'm not against raising taxes .. . I'm really not .. . But Damn some time or another we have to see the government cut something .. a real cut .. not just paper shuffling to make it look like a cut. I'm sorry but for the last 30 years we have spent more then we took in ... now pardon me for wanting to see some evidence that is going to change before giving them even more monye to spend ..

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    how about raising taxes on the 47% who have an effective federal tax rate of ZERO or the 60% who get more from the government than they pay in taxes?


    Your case is to take from people who can barely afford to eat? Nice plan. Got anything that is based in reality?

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    You don't fail, I was one of the few that was for letting all the tax cuts expired .... I'm not against raising taxes .. . I'm really not .. . But Damn some time or another we have to see the government cut something .. a real cut .. not just paper shuffling to make it look like a cut. I'm sorry but for the last 30 years we have spent more then we took in ... now pardon me for wanting to see some evidence that is going to change before giving them even more monye to spend ..
    We can do both at the same time. Our leaders can sit at the table and know if both are there. We need to show we support both.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    You don't fail, I was one of the few that was for letting all the tax cuts expired .... I'm not against raising taxes .. . I'm really not .. . But Damn some time or another we have to see the government cut something .. a real cut .. not just paper shuffling to make it look like a cut. I'm sorry but for the last 30 years we have spent more then we took in ... now pardon me for wanting to see some evidence that is going to change before giving them even more monye to spend ..
    End two wars. $4 Trillion over the last 10 years. Reduce defense spending levels to reality. Eliminate farm, railroad and oil subsidies.

    Create jobs by rebuilding our rotting infrastructure. Jobs that will actually pay for themselves in that Americans would be working and spending again.

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Polotick View Post
    Your case is to take from people who can barely afford to eat? Nice plan. Got anything that is based in reality?
    so it is your learned position that 47% of the population can barely afford to eat? most of the poorest people are OBESE



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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We can do both at the same time.
    not with john boehner running the house

    sorry

    you don't know the speaker?

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