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Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

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MusicAdventurer said:
It has been my experience that when a dispute cannot be resolved, it is not solely one entities fault. The Dems and the Repubs are both not willing to compromise. However, this doesn't mean that one party may not be being more stubborn than the other. Regardless of lies etc., they need to reach a solution, perhaps no solution is there solution right now. I kind of see politicians as misbehaving kids who can't learn to play nice.
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Politicians will only behave responsibly when those who elect them do the same.

If presenting budgets is not important to the electorate, much less balancing them, then the politicians will not bother with the controversies which might occur, and ignore budgets altogether. The people are now just getting what they voted for and cannot not have expected anything different. If they repeat their error in the next Presidential election, despite knowing what they know now, then they will again get what they deserve.

Fool me once...etc.
 
MusicAdventurer said:
This is definitely a morbid thought .. and a reason why some other countries likely started disallowing people to leave their country. Greedy people will always try to find ways to exploit others and if that means moving to another immoral country, they'll likely do it.
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And the rightwing wants to pay the extortionists. I say let them leave. We can nationalize the traitors assets and sell them to the highest bidder. Let the rich move to the low tax nation of Afghanistan.
 
sangha said:
No. In fact "the wealthy" are paying a lower effective tax rate than the middle class.
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A lower "effective" tax rate?

That is a meaningless term.

Of course businesses and people will go elsewhere if the taxes are too high, just as they have been doing for many years now.

Haven't you heard?
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sangha said:
And the rightwing wants to pay the extortionists. I say let them leave. We can nationalize the traitors assets and sell them to the highest bidder. Let the rich move to the low tax nation of Afghanistan.
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Why not put up a concrete wall so they can't escape? Perhaps have a few armed guards watching. with orders to shoot to kill, in case any of 'the rich' try to leave.

That should work.
 
Grant said:
A lower "effective" tax rate?

That is a meaningless term.

Of course businesses and people will go elsewhere if the taxes are too high, just as they have been doing for many years now.

Haven't you heard?
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Just because you don't know the meaning of something, that doesnt make it meaningless

And the selfish rich aren't moving to other countries. They're just moving OUR jobs overseas.

Haven't you heard?
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Grant said:
Why not put up a concrete wall so they can't escape? Perhaps have a few armed guards watching. with orders to shoot to kill, in case any of 'the rich' try to leave.

That should work.
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I say let them leave. I believe in freedom. You are free to believe otherwise

It's the rightwingers who want to put a wall up on our border

Haven't you heard?
 
disneydude said:
In other words, you agree with the Republicans idea that it should be solved solely by cuts to the elderly and pooerest among us, and leave the wealthiest alone. Talk about class warfare.
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it's a lot bigger than wingnuts, i'm afraid

California budget: Democrats pass austerity budget - Los Angeles Times

Cuomo budget: $10 billion deficit cut, no new taxes, layoffs likely

Jerry Brown Budget Cuts | California budget: Gov. Jerry Brown approves cuts to services for poor, sick and elderly - Los Angeles Times

MA House votes to restrict unions - Boston.com

New Jersey Assembly Passes Bill That Requires Public Workers' Unions To Pay More For Benefits - WPIX

Emanuel Unveils Major Budget Cut On First Full Day « CBS Chicago

Governor Pat Quinn signs Illinois education reform bill into law, new rules effect school days, teacher strikes, tenure | abc7chicago.com

Detroit Moves Against Unions - WSJ.com

Union Deal Defeated; Gov. Malloy Pledges To Cut State Workers - CTnow

Rahm Emanuel sends layoff notices to city workers in union showdown - Chicago Sun-Times
 
Grant said:
Why not put up a concrete wall so they can't escape? Perhaps have a few armed guards watching. with orders to shoot to kill, in case any of 'the rich' try to leave.

That should work.
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As noted earlier, the countries they have to choose from to go and continue to exploit aren't that great anyway ... not many countries have tax rates like the U.S. ... I don't think we have to worry too much (perhaps I am underestimating their greed?)
 
sangha said:
I say let them leave. I believe in freedom. You are free to believe otherwise

It's the rightwingers who want to put a wall up on our border

Haven't you heard?
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I think there are many ways to keep the wealthy in our country, other than lowering the taxes on the wealthy and expecting the middle class to shoulder the weight and besides taxing those who have nothing to give. There are many policies that can be made that would discourage leaving (not that they have a huge incentive to leave anyway)
 
Catawba said:
many of the far right persuasion think our debt just came about during the last 2 and a half years.
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nonsense

our current situation is the culmination of generations of demographic inevitabilities

ie, it never had a chance

bottom line, bright children, left and right, know it

U.S. funding for future promises lags by trillions - USATODAY.com

if something isn't done NOW to fundamentally restructure our budgets, then our big 3 federal programs (and state pensions too) will simply not be there in their present form for our next generation

it's going on three years since the party in power in the us senate passed a budget---in times like these
leadership, anyone?
 
sangha said:
Maybe we would be better off passing a constiutional amendment that says if the republicans keep piling up debt, the republican members of Congress can take no pay or benefits, or campaign contriubtions for the next year and their campaign expenditure must be cut by the amount of the deficit from the previous year.
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fantasize much?

in public?

dream on, mitty
 
Grant said:
But the equal distribution of greed is not what's at play here. Those with less want an equal distribution, in fact more than an equal distribution, from those who have more. It is the mob, being encouraged by unscrupulous politicians, wanting something for nothing.
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I disagree. What is at play is nothing more or less than the payment of a debt owed. In order to pay the debt we need a compromise on the budget.

Ad hominems such as "the mob" are not helpful. They do not move the football forward. This is not the time for getting bogged down in ideological conflict. This is a time to be pragmatic. We must all hang together, or we will all hang separately (economically speaking).
 
sangha said:
Grant said:
Just because you don't know the meaning of something, that doesnt make it meaningless

And the selfish rich aren't moving to other countries. They're just moving OUR jobs overseas.

Haven't you heard?
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they're not "your" jobs. they belong to the people who create them. if you make it too expensive and difficult for them to create them over here, guess what? they will do so elsewhere.
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I have to say, I was very troubled today to learn that we pay our debt-interest obligations..with loans!!!

that ain't sustainable.
 
MusicAdventurer said:
It has been my experience that when a dispute cannot be resolved, it is not solely one entities fault. The Dems and the Repubs are both not willing to compromise. However, this doesn't mean that one party may not be being more stubborn than the other. Regardless of lies etc., they need to reach a solution, perhaps no solution is there solution right now. I kind of see politicians as misbehaving kids who can't learn to play nice.
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I understand your point and I can respect that. I see it that the GOP does not want to fall for anymore lies about actually cutting the budget.
 
sangha said:
SS reduces the budget deficit.
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you don't know what you're talking about

The federal government's financial condition deteriorated rapidly last year, far beyond the $1.5 trillion in new debt taken on to finance the budget deficit, a USA TODAY analysis shows.

The government added $5.3 trillion in new financial obligations in 2010, largely for retirement programs such as Medicare and Social Security. That brings to a record $61.6 trillion the total of financial promises not paid for.

Medicare alone took on $1.8 trillion in new liabilities, more than the record deficit prompting heated debate between Congress and the White House over lifting the debt ceiling.

Social Security added $1.4 trillion in obligations, partly reflecting longer life expectancies. Federal and military retirement programs added more to the financial hole, too.
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U.S. funding for future promises lags by trillions - USATODAY.com

61.6T, sinking 5.3 further per year

not enough revenue in the universe

if something isn't done NOW the precious programs will expire

leadership, anyone?
 
Thunder said:
I have to say, I was very troubled today to learn that we pay our debt-interest obligations..with loans!!!

that ain't sustainable.
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You think that's bad, we have an agreement with Taiwan to protect them against China and we have to borrow money from the Chinese in order to protect Taiwan. Woof!
 
Grant said:
In fact "the wealthy" are already paying their share and more.

Who Pays the Most Income Tax?

The "poorest and the needy" , which would seem to be almost 50% of the population, don't pay any federal taxes at all.

Going after 'the wealthiest" might work for a little while but money and people can cross borders easily enough and that's just what's happening. Companies can just leave, which is what they are doing, and then Americans will complain about that.

Unless taxation is fairly distributed people will just leave and 'the wealthy' who remain will eventually just run out of money. Then where will "the poorest and the needy" go?

In fact America prospered without these programs for a couple of centuries, and were in an international class of their own. Now they cant survive without the government looking after them.

What happened?
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Let them go. We simply need to ensure that they won't be rewarded for doing so and will not be able to do conduct business in the United States without paying additional costs. That is where we need to restructure our economic policies.
 
sangha said:
I say let them leave.
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who says?

LOL!

anyway, they already did

they went to texas

Some 37% of all net new American jobs since the recovery began were created in Texas.

Using Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) data, Dallas Fed economists looked at state-by-state employment changes since June 2009, when the recession ended. Texas added 265,300 net jobs, out of the 722,200 nationwide, and by far outpaced every other state. New York was second with 98,200, Pennsylvania added 93,000, and it falls off from there. Nine states created fewer than 10,000 jobs, while Maine, Hawaii, Delaware and Wyoming created fewer than 1,000. Eighteen states have lost jobs since the recovery began.
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Review & Outlook: The Lone Star Jobs Surge - WSJ.com
 
The Prof said:
oh?



oh...

LOL!

if more politicians talked like you my side would have more than 350 seats in the house

and a whole lot of laughs

rant away, raskolnikov
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Freedom is a subjective word and it has never existed - freedom to do anything = anarchy

Therefore, your definition of freedom may be very different from that of others

some believe in different rights, different do's and don'ts, if you took a political science class or read political science books (not partisan ones, textbooks is what I am talking about), you would realize that one kind of "freedom" or "liberty" etc. comes at the price of less freedom in other areas - it all depends on what freedoms you value most
 
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ReverendHellh0und said:
So "no deal without tax hikes", "don't call my bluff", "no deal until debt ceiling is raised"...
Once again, who isn't compromising?
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It is time to walk away. Just let the one term Marxist president Obama deal with the results of no deal.
 
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