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Thread: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    So you're saying we should forget theory, cross our fingers, and hope for the best in the midst of an anemic economy and historic debt crisis.

    Noted.
    Nope. A theory must be tested. And when you reach the conclusion that there is no evidence to support it, you adjust the theory and not just hold on to it. The fact is there are far too many variables in an economy to reduce it to merely lowering taxes or spending on a stimulus. I would argue government has minor effect if any at all. Stimulus spending may temporarily keep some jobs, and it may put some people to work, but won't likley dramatically change the overriding factors of the economy. Nor will tax increases change these factors either. And minor tax increases won't effect anything either. So largely, the debate is more political than pragmatic. More posturing than substanitive.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Nope. A theory must be tested. And when you reach the conclusion that there is no evidence to support it, you adjust the theory and not just hold on to it. The fact is there are far too many variables in an economy to reduce it to merely lowering taxes or spending on a stimulus. I would argue government has minor effect if any at all. Stimulus spending may temporarily keep some jobs, and it may put some people to work, but won't likley dramatically change the overriding factors of the economy. Nor will tax increases change these factors either. And minor tax increases won't effect anything either. So largely, the debate is more political than pragmatic. More posturing than substanitive.
    No, it's an emotional argument
    The Amygdala Strain: Right-Wing Teabaggery as Psychological Pandemic beeryblog
    Now, take a guess what researchers have discovered about enlarged amygdalas and the link between enlarged amygdalas and a certain political bent. That’s right: researchers have found that conservatives have larger amygdalas than normal people. It’s been reported that

    … research shows that people with conservative tendencies have a larger amygdala and a smaller anterior cingulate than other people. The amygdala—typically thought of as the “primitive brain”—is responsible for reflexive impulses, like fear. The anterior cingulate is thought to be responsible for courage and optimism. This one-two punch could be responsible for many of the anecdotal claims that conservatives “think differently” from others.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Right-wing extremists often accuse the Left and Democrats of trying to wage "class-warfare", by wanting to raise taxes on the wealthy by 3%. I now see this as a strawman.
    see my response to sandha which shows my view on this 3% strawman argument. I do not claim to be a right wing extremist so can't talk for whomever "they" are.

    I think many are tiring of statements which have a sliver of truth but are mainly bull**** such as yours above.

    Class warfare is talking about corporate jet deductions when what is really meant is the accelerated depreciation which companies get on all capital spending. Class warfare is the junk about oil company tax deductions when almost everyone agrees we need to get rid of a lot of deductions( loopholes) and lower our marginal corporate rate so we can better compete for jobs.

    A true liberal would be fighting for concepts that get more of our people working, especially the unskilled who have been left along the side of the road on the path to globalism. B.S. rhetoric in the name of party only, caring less about the well being of the less well off is not a liberla stance at least to me.

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    the one term Marxist president Obama telling the truth in a video about why he wants to increase tax rates on the rich...
    Awesome. He wants "fairness" even though revenues will go down. In his core he wants control and the redistribution of wealth. Or as Karl Marx might say, "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    see my response to sandha which shows my view on this 3% strawman argument. I do not claim to be a right wing extremist so can't talk for whomever "they" are.

    I think many are tiring of statements which have a sliver of truth but are mainly bull**** such as yours above.

    Class warfare is talking about corporate jet deductions when what is really meant is the accelerated depreciation which companies get on all capital spending. Class warfare is the junk about oil company tax deductions when almost everyone agrees we need to get rid of a lot of deductions( loopholes) and lower our marginal corporate rate so we can better compete for jobs.

    A true liberal would be fighting for concepts that get more of our people working, especially the unskilled who have been left along the side of the road on the path to globalism. B.S. rhetoric in the name of party only, caring less about the well being of the less well off is not a liberla stance at least to me.
    Your response to me was filled with mistatements of facts
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    aside from the fact that he obviously is blindsided by the question, i think one of my favorite parts is where he castigates George Bush for running up $4 Trillion in debt, says that that is undermining our economy, and says it's going to change once he's President.
    Yes. It was the hope and change we could believe it. It did change. The rate of borrowing and printing went way up.

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Taxes are not legislated to go up in 2013. The legislation that makes them go down expires in 2013. And the HCR bill contains no new income taxes. And I don't believe that "many places" are raising state income taxes.
    There you go again. Call it what you will but tax rates go up in 2013, including on those in lower brackets. Yes there is a surcharge in the HC plan maybe you are calling it something else.

    OK several states have raised taxes this year including the one I live in so that makes it problematic ( at least for me).

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I'm starting to see this whole "class-warfare" argument as just a silly strawman by the Right.
    Really? Karl Marx and a whole generation (or three) of Democrats cannot live without it.

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Your response to me was filled with mistatements of facts
    Tired of your nonsense. If you care to share what you call mistakes fine, if not also fine.

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Theory is one thing, actual evidence another.
    says the person who disparages research

    LOL!

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