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Thread: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

  1. #1111
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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    We can stop right there. Point to remember here, folks, is this: the tax increase the President has proposed would not impact the profits of the small business. So, if cpwill's uncle's business made a profit of $2 million, the small business would not be taxed, atleast not in the way the tax debate has been phrased. Now, if cpwill's uncle earned $1 million in income from his business, his income would likely be taxed, but NOT the profits from his business - not unless the uncle declared the business proceeds as his total income.
    Furthermore, if an employees work produces a profit, the only way a tax increase can eliminate that profit is if the tax is greater than 100%. If the employee brings in $1 of profit, and the tax rate is 35%, then the after tax profit is $0.65. If the tax is increased to 40%, there is still a profit. If an employer fires that employee because of a tax increase, they are reducing their profits, which is a foolish way to decrease a businesses' tax bill.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Code for: "We'll raise the debt limit, large spending cuts will be part of the deal. I think I can get my party to accept getting rid of some tax loopholes that are no longer necessary as opposed to increasing taxes on "job creators" (...code for "investors and business owners"...). But under no circumstances will the Republican party accept tax increases on anyone else, weathy or otherwise."

    At this point, I can live with that as long as the revenue generated by eliminating those tax loopholes are huge! Fact is, the country could use the revenue to start paying down the debt faster.
    I agree completely.... I've said all along that this was nothing more then getting every cut that could be gotten .. it's the best that can be hoped for .. as for the revenue to begin paying down the debt .... that is just a joke right ??? because we are still more then a trillion dollars a year away from even balancing the budget ... let alone having an
    surplus to begin paying down the debt ...... to get to that point .. we "have" to get the people back to work .... and from what I'm seeing ... that is still a ways out....
    Last edited by The Barbarian; 07-17-11 at 01:49 AM.

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Furthermore, if an employees work produces a profit, the only way a tax increase can eliminate that profit is if the tax is greater than 100%. If the employee brings in $1 of profit, and the tax rate is 35%, then the after tax profit is $0.65. If the tax is increased to 40%, there is still a profit. If an employer fires that employee because of a tax increase, they are reducing their profits, which is a foolish way to decrease a businesses' tax bill.
    rolls around laughing ...... yeah .. if you had anything to do with business .. it would be broke by now ..

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Crow View Post
    ?????????????????????????? Wtf????????????????????????????
    -laughing- don't try to make sense of anything said ..... cause there isn't any sense behind it .. just the insane ramblings of someone that doesn't know better

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Just a wild guess ..... but you have never owned a business yourself have you ??
    no, he hasn't. which is why he has no appreciation for risk.

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Nonsense. Business owners don't invest in their own business simply because they have money laying around. They invest in their own business because they believe they will get a better return (ie more profit) than investing it elsewhere. A businessman who invests in his own business when he can get a better return elsewhere should be run out of business and probably will.
    yes and no - small business owners also consider their own businesses "safer" investments because they are investing in things that they control, and often in capital they could sell if necessary.

    Each of those employees is contributing to the profit of his business
    wrong. each of those employees has the potential to contribute to the profit of his business. when he hires and continues to pay them, he is accepting upon himself the risk that they may not - he is risking assets for a return. reduce the return, and you will reduce the amount of risk he will take.

    In general. Here you will reduce the amount of risk he can take. Like I said; he's been burning through income and savings to keep as many of his people with him as possible.

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Furthermore, if an employees work produces a profit, the only way a tax increase can eliminate that profit is if the tax is greater than 100%. If the employee brings in $1 of profit, and the tax rate is 35%, then the after tax profit is $0.65. If the tax is increased to 40%, there is still a profit. If an employer fires that employee because of a tax increase, they are reducing their profits, which is a foolish way to decrease a businesses' tax bill.
    Wrong. You keep the people earning you the most profit and cut those that are in the least productive area. Sure, you are cutting your potential profits, but the key word in potential. If the market isnt doing what it used to, cutting your staff and production to meet slower demand is a strong option. Besides all that, taking a 5% profit margin hit in a small business is a pretty big hit all things considered. Some profit margins may be anywhere from 8% all the way to 25% depending on the business. Companies taking that hit must then either cut costs or raise prices. Raising prices is trickle down in reverse, customers always pay eventually when it comes to tax hikes.

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yes and no - small business owners also consider their own businesses "safer" investments because they are investing in things that they control, and often in capital they could sell if necessary.
    Correction...FOOLISH business owners believe that.



    wrong. each of those employees has the potential to contribute to the profit of his business. when he hires and continues to pay them, he is accepting upon himself the risk that they may not - he is risking assets for a return. reduce the return, and you will reduce the amount of risk he will take.
    Any business owner that has employees that do not contribute to the profitability of the business is a fool.

    In general. Here you will reduce the amount of risk he can take. Like I said; he's been burning through income and savings to keep as many of his people with him as possible.
    Then he's not running a business, he's running a charity.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I created Google, Facebook, Intel, and Apple
    Oh my goodness! Al Gore is on Debate Politics?

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    Re: Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Wrong. You keep the people earning you the most profit and cut those that are in the least productive area.
    Wrong.

    Sure, you are cutting your potential profits, but the key word in potential.
    No, you are cutting actual profits.

    If the market isnt doing what it used to, cutting your staff and production to meet slower demand is a strong option. Besides all that, taking a 5% profit margin hit in a small business is a pretty big hit all things considered. Some profit margins may be anywhere from 8% all the way to 25% depending on the business. Companies taking that hit must then either cut costs or raise prices. Raising prices is trickle down in reverse, customers always pay eventually when it comes to tax hikes.
    1) Wrong again. Income taxes only apply to the profit. If a business has a 1% pre-tax return, then a 35% tax rate leaves the business with an after tax return of 0..65%, still a profit.

    2) Some businesses have returns that are lower than 8% and some have returns that are more than 25%. You even got the #'s wrong

    3) Some markets can not bear an increase in price. Therefore, they can't pass the cost onto its' customers. Instead, they have to cut costs, which is good for both consumers and producers
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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